Rune Tuning and the Rarity Bonus Chance Explained

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Comments

  • Joveth wrote: »
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    • As you continue to Tune a Rune, the blue Rarity bonus bar begins to fill up. This is a visual representation of the odds of you rolling a higher Rarity Rune. For example, if the blue bar is 50% full, you have a 50% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune. Similarly, if the bar is 75% full, you have a 75% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune.

    So if it's 0% full, you have a 0% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune? :)

    NOOOO.... please read this part:

    When you are about to Tune a Rune for the first time, your chances of Tuning a higher Rarity is the exact same as before the update. The visual bar is not filled at all and you have a 0% Rarity bonus. While there is no Rarity bonus applied, there's still a chance for a Rarity upgrade.

    @shiggity80 I think the key word in his statement here is BONUS. The blue bar is a bonus chance. The base chance is there and then the blue bar adds a bonus chance. The math behind it they will not share as it is proprietary most likely and a statistics class would be required to understand it but think of it like this:

    With the blue bar not filled, you roll a die with lets say a 1 in 6 chance of getting a rarity upgrade. There is no bonus chance, just a low percentage of upgrading.

    You lose so the blue bar starts to fill in a bonus chance. Think of the die with now a 2 in 6 chance (2 sides give a rarity upgrade). No luck? Repeat and the sides of the die fill in with more chances of heroic. This is oversimplified but I think that gives a better idea of how it works.
  • GukZoin wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    • As you continue to Tune a Rune, the blue Rarity bonus bar begins to fill up. This is a visual representation of the odds of you rolling a higher Rarity Rune. For example, if the blue bar is 50% full, you have a 50% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune. Similarly, if the bar is 75% full, you have a 75% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune.

    So if it's 0% full, you have a 0% chance of getting a higher Rarity on your next Tune? :)

    NOOOO.... please read this part:

    When you are about to Tune a Rune for the first time, your chances of Tuning a higher Rarity is the exact same as before the update. The visual bar is not filled at all and you have a 0% Rarity bonus. While there is no Rarity bonus applied, there's still a chance for a Rarity upgrade.

    @shiggity80 I think the key word in his statement here is BONUS. The blue bar is a bonus chance. The base chance is there and then the blue bar adds a bonus chance. The math behind it they will not share as it is proprietary most likely and a statistics class would be required to understand it but think of it like this:

    With the blue bar not filled, you roll a die with lets say a 1 in 6 chance of getting a rarity upgrade. There is no bonus chance, just a low percentage of upgrading.

    You lose so the blue bar starts to fill in a bonus chance. Think of the die with now a 2 in 6 chance (2 sides give a rarity upgrade). No luck? Repeat and the sides of the die fill in with more chances of heroic. This is oversimplified but I think that gives a better idea of how it works.

    GukZoin, appreciate the response. I understood that already, but I guess I was hoping for more transparency from DB. Like is the bonus an additive bonus, where you get your base % chance + bonus % = total % chance, or a multiplier, as in 50% bar filled = 1.5x base chance.

    If the latter, then that barely helps, however I think Joveth did mention above that if the bar is 75% filled, you get a 75% chance of getting an upgrade.
  • JovethJoveth Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    [
    Can you clarify the last bullet point? I think a lot of folks are wanting to know this. According to your explanation, if the bar is not filled, then there is 0% chance that the rune will upgrade in rarity? So the only way to upgrade the rarity is to spend at least 2 tunes?

    Or does the blue bar mean that if by default there is an inherent chance of 10% that a rare rune will upgrade to a heroic, then a completely full bar will mean there is a 100% bonus to that 10%, meaning you now have 20%?

    Either way I think you guys need to change the system. It should be that on any given tune, regardless of the blue bar, there should be a default chance of upgrading a rune. Obviously as you go for higher rarity, that inherent default % is lowered. For example, going from Rare->Heroic should be like 15-20% chance per tune.

    Then as the blue bar fills up, it should add a set %, maybe 10% per increment. So if your bar is empty, and you have a rare rune, each tune has a natural 15%-20% chance to go up in rarity, and for each unsuccessful tune, you get an additive bonus of 10%. After 5 failed tunes, your 6th tune would be 15 or 20% + 60% = 75-80% chance that you will get a heroic.

    Please provide more clarity on how the blue bar affects the upgrade process and whether there are natural/inherent/default % of upgrading when the bar is at 0%.

    When the bar is NOT full, you have a small chance of getting an upgrade. This is the same chance as before the update. The bar represents the BONUS chance for rarity. The higher it goes, the higher this bonus becomes.

    I also wanted to let you all know that we're still examining this system and identifying on ways to improve it based on the feedback provided here and elsewhere on the forums. We're happy to have this dialogue and we'll keep you posted on any new changes.
  • I understand the logic in your statement and I think overall I have been happier with runes since the change, though it could all be luck...

    Here's an example of a small problem:
    Craft a superior rune and before any tuning it's a heroic 2* rune.

    After using all the tunes possible, this is what it looks like:
    nx21ch1japbq.png

    Now, I cannot complain too much as it's a heroic rune but the rarity did not change for 12 tunes - and look at where the bar is! There's still a pretty large gap there... what's the point of the bar being that long if you can't reach it?
  • BrianSM wrote: »
    I understand the logic in your statement and I think overall I have been happier with runes since the change, though it could all be luck...

    Here's an example of a small problem:
    Craft a superior rune and before any tuning it's a heroic 2* rune.

    After using all the tunes possible, this is what it looks like:
    nx21ch1japbq.png

    Now, I cannot complain too much as it's a heroic rune but the rarity did not change for 12 tunes - and look at where the bar is! There's still a pretty large gap there... what's the point of the bar being that long if you can't reach it?

    Same thing has happened to me :/
  • BrianSM wrote: »
    I understand the logic in your statement and I think overall I have been happier with runes since the change, though it could all be luck...

    Here's an example of a small problem:
    Craft a superior rune and before any tuning it's a heroic 2* rune.

    After using all the tunes possible, this is what it looks like:
    nx21ch1japbq.png

    Now, I cannot complain too much as it's a heroic rune but the rarity did not change for 12 tunes - and look at where the bar is! There's still a pretty large gap there... what's the point of the bar being that long if you can't reach it?

    I only had that happen once out of the 10-15 runes I have made with the new system. Unlucky as hell, that. Most of the time I get it before the bar is half way up. Sadly mine that went to 5 star heroic was also a superior. Perhaps the superior dice are different? Only crafted 1 superior so far so not much data from me.
  • Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Nice! I know a bunch of folks were upset over the increase in initial cost.
    Teal125
  • @Joveth Why are you guys being so generous?

    Joveth I'm scared. xD

    :)
  • Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Kek bless you
  • Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Thanks for making adjustments based off of the community feedback!
  • kalamadeakalamadea Member
    edited December 2016
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Thanks for making adjustments based off of the community feedback!

    I'm not going to thank them for adjustments yet --- I'll be cautiously optimistic.. especially given the massive amount of gems I've ended up spending lately on "tuning" that they'll do anything significant.

    In the mean time, I've stopped crafting any further runes since I've been burnt too many times by spending ~100 gems just to have the 3rd stat show up as subpar.

    I'll believe it when I see it.
    Post edited by kalamadea on
  • kalamadea wrote: »
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Thanks for making adjustments based off of the community feedback!

    I'm not going to thank them for adjustments yet --- I'll be cautiously optimistic.. especially given the massive amount of gems I've ended up spending lately on "tuning" that they'll do anything significant.

    In the mean time, I've stopped crafting any further runes since I've been burnt too many times by spending ~100 gems just to have the 3rd stat show up as resist.

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    out of curiosity why not just scrap the rune if you don't get the 3 stats you want off the bat? Will save you a ton of gems. Resources are not that hard to find either.
    The EMPIRE :: The Aegis of Athena
    KuK1uXt.png
  • kalamadeakalamadea Member
    edited December 2016
    Drocas wrote: »
    out of curiosity why not just scrap the rune if you don't get the 3 stats you want off the bat? Will save you a ton of gems. Resources are not that hard to find either.

    I'm talking about the times now I've crafted a rune, it shows up uncommon with two good stats, so I hit the tune button and the third pops up with garbage.

    Just to find out what the 3rd stat is, is far more expensive then before: (5 + 10) vs (25 + 25) or (65 + 65)

    Two options I see are:

    Make crafted runes always be rare at the start.
    OR
    Lower the first two tune costs, and take the difference, divide it by 10, and add it to the remaining 10.

    Example -
    Greater:
    1st tune 15 / 2nd tune 35 / Remaining tunes 73

    Still end up with the same overall cost, just not the painful beginning that it is currently.
    And for me, resources are quite hard to come by.
  • kalamadea wrote: »
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    Hey folks, another quick update here. We've been reading your feedback and comments and we're working on some changes (this includes the upfront tuning costs for higher Tier Runes). Thanks for all of your suggestions! We'll post details once we have more info for you!

    Thanks for making adjustments based off of the community feedback!

    I'm not going to thank them for adjustments yet --- I'll be cautiously optimistic.. especially given the massive amount of gems I've ended up spending lately on "tuning" that they'll do anything significant.

    In the mean time, I've stopped crafting any further runes since I've been burnt too many times by spending ~100 gems just to have the 3rd stat show up as subpar.

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    I'm with you too. Need to see it to really believe it. But he did say adjustments to initial tuning costs for higher tier runes. So it should be an improvement of some sorts.
  • Hey Dungeon Boss with the new rune system I'm sure a lot of us would like a second chance at runing our heros. I don't remember the last time we had a free rune removal event, but I'd sure appreciate one. Removing quality runes gets quite pricey.
  • Ah yes... another day spent finally getting enough shards and materials to craft a superior rune. And another day of not a single rarity upgrade using all "tunes" available... 3* rare superior defense rune just got salvaged :|
  • Full tunes needs to end in automatic heroic.
    10328949?gid=

  • Any updates on this? I have been hoarding gems forever, any dates known? I mean the topic of lowering upfront rune tuning cost for higher-tier runes. Make it happen please!
  • JovethJoveth Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    arkonka wrote: »
    Any updates on this? I have been hoarding gems forever, any dates known? I mean the topic of lowering upfront rune tuning cost for higher-tier runes. Make it happen please!

    We just put in a change that adjusts initial tuning costs! Check it out! We'll be adding patch notes shortly.
  • JovethJoveth Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Here's the Patch note:
    • We've adjusted initial tuning costs based on player feedback.
  • shiggity80shiggity80 Member
    edited December 2016
    Joveth wrote: »
    Here's the Patch note:
    • We've adjusted initial tuning costs based on player feedback.

    Is this live now?

    Edit: Nope. Just did a greater power rune and it costs 65 gems all tunes (at least I got a legendary 5 star though)
  • JovethJoveth Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    Joveth wrote: »
    Here's the Patch note:
    • We've adjusted initial tuning costs based on player feedback.

    Is this live now?

    Almost! I jumped the gun a bit. It will be going live shortly.
  • tallkristallkris Member
    edited December 2016
    So I noticed that on my 12th tune under this new system doubled the blue bar from approximately 35% to approximately 70%. Why the huge jump when I can't tune any more leaving me stuck at a 5* heroic
  • This new tune system only affects greater and superior runes right?

    Anyone know what the new costs are?

    I tested out a greater and it went 10/25/45/65. Didn't go past that so don't know what the final tunes costs.
  • kalamadeakalamadea Member
    edited December 2016
    75 then 80 then 85 then 90 for the last tune on a greater
  • kalamadeakalamadea Member
    edited December 2016
    Greater - 10/25/45/65/65/65/75/75/80/80/85 (maxxed out 5 star legendary at this point) -- but 3 tunes left and I know it hits 90 on the 12th tune
  • Greater:
    1st 10
    2nd 25
    3rd 45
    4th 65
    5th 65
    6th 65
    7th 75
    8th 75
    9th 80 -- maxxed again
    10th
    11th
    12th
  • @Joveth @Joel Any chance of a free rune un-equip to celebrate these changes?
  • kalamadea wrote: »
    @Joveth @Joel Any chance of a free rune un-equip to celebrate these changes?

    Well Christmas is coming... SOON. ;)
    Gmun
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