Kozar makes goblin tower team SO good...

I have enjoyed goblin teams in the past, but when I unlocked Kozar...everything changed.

I removed squinch who is the weakest contributor to the team and replaced with Kozar. now I can pretty much AutoFight the tower up to about floor 7 or 10.
Occasionally I make it all the way if I do a bit of manual control and can keep kozar alive.


Kozar's main claim to fame is a whopping 60% health boost to EVERYONE. This on top of the SLOW bonus to himself and Nubs. In practical terms, this team can weather the beatings on most floors and heal themselves back to full by the end, just with autoattacks from Nub.

Team order is always: Zurk (for crit/haste ASAP), King, Nub (so he gets a chance to autoattack/heal before kozar could finish off someone), Kozar last.

To accomplish this you want to rune like so:

Everyone needs lots of DEFENSE. They already have tons of health due to Kozar so its less important. Defense is key. Damage reduction and dodge are also valuable and both are better than Health. AVOID Vampiric.... its minor healing sucks compared to goblin natural healing.

Zurk and Nubs both need lots of CRIT too. It is unclear how the +20% Crit from King factors in, so 30% crit should be an ideal goal to achieve. That will either get you 50% or 36% depending on how it works. He still has to Not Die, so don't overdo it.

Zurks critting is an incredible power boost for the team and gives Nubs a second attack such that he can crit.

Nubs critting gives the entire team INCLUDING KOZAR a crapton of healing. Try to prioritize SKILL over CRIT on Nub nub all else being equal...skill boosts his healing while boosting crit a similar amount.

Nub and Kozar are also SLOW so health is even less valuable on them than the others. As far as I know, the SLOW and Kozar health percentage bonuses work based on BASE health, not runed health.


HEALING: The 3 goblins get 10% healing of their total health every end of turn. Does NOT work on Kozar though.
Nubs critting gives a COLLOSAL amount of health to ALL teammates. Zurk crit/haste enables him to get a second attack.
Manually controlled, King can Taunt and give health to Goblins only. Not kozar.
manually controlled, VOODOO obviously restores lots of health. Zurk crit with energy bonus enables him to cast often.

Please CORRECT any wrong info I have listed here! Thanks!

Comments

  • DrocasDrocas Member
    That sounds correct.....i can't wait to see your post when you take full advantage of the undead team :)
    The EMPIRE :: The Aegis of Athena
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  • No.

    It seems pretty clear that you have no idea how passive and other bonuses stack.

    In all honesty with the healing going out, health should be a higher priority. Nubs buffs goblin health, Kozar buffs health. Being slow buffs health. Not just base health. If you look at nub's character sheet, he will be getting bonuses from both slow and his passive. This is how it calculates it for characters who are giving the buff, on their character sheet. Zurk and bramble still stand to gain loads of health on top of runed health. If anything, this double health passive makes health more valuable for Nubs and Kozar.

    It is very clear how Bramble's passive affects Zurk and Nubs. Character sheet crit is separate from passive buffs on extra team members. Meaning you should be maxing crit on Zurk and Nubs, because Bramble's passive will push that past 50%.

    As far as the community is aware, skill ONLY affects crit. Not healing.


    You know, for someone who is willing to yell at someone for a video showing a better way to do something (that is at least based in fact), you sure have a lot of misinformation here.
  • 4tom4tom Member
    edited January 6
    @Idimustari

    Def will give a bigger boost than HP for gobs. (see Foozle's chart: http://forum.dungeonboss.com/discussion/14656/rune-theorycrafting-defense-health-and-damage-reduction#latest )

    Which is better (Def or HP) is based on the amount of the stat the runes offer and the percentage it boosts your overall stats.

    For a hero with 100 hp and 10 def, adding a 50 hp rune boosts overall EHP (effective hit points) by 50% (x1.5). Adding a 50 def run boosts EHP by 500% (x6).

    If you add in a 50% HP passive, the hero now has 150hp and 10 def. Adding 50hp increases that to 225. It is still a 50% bonus vs a 500% bonus to EHP, regardless of the passive.

    But HP and Def don't come in the same amounts on runes. In general, defense is about 36-40% of the amount of life on two runes of the same quality. So if your defense (before passives) is at about 50% of your life (before passives), you should add more life. If your defense is at about 30% of your life, you should add more defense.

    As per skill and healing it has been confirmed that skill boosts heal on heal per kill rate (i.e., Ponti/Brom). I am not sure if it works on Nubs Voodoo, but I believe it does. It doesn't work on % of health/damage based skills like Nubs healing from his passive or vampire runes. I do think you will be better off stacking crit over skill. You get more crit and it boosts the amount that heals crit (increasing healing on all sources as well).

    As per crit max passive buffs from other heros are indeed added separately. So Zurk can go above 50% crit with Bramble's passive, but not Bramble himself.
    zntCIcd.gif
  • 4tom4tom Member
    edited January 6
    I think my ideal tower gob team would have:

    Bramble: 2 bulwark | 1 life | THEN all power (att > dmg > crit)
    Nubs: 2 bulwark | THEN all power/percision (crit to 50% = att > dmg)
    Zurk: 1 bulwark | 1 life | THEN all percision/power (crit to 50% > att > dmg)
    Kozar: 1 bulwark | 1 life | THEN all power (att > dmg > crit)

    You might get away with just one defensive rune if using legendary greater/superior runes. If that's the case, eliminate the life runes first. Granted, I've been level 70 with an all 6* team for a while... you might need more defenses when you're a lower level or # of stars.
    zntCIcd.gif
  • @4tom

    Multiple times the argument for skill affecting healing has been disproven. And given that we aren't using undead in this example, skill doesn't help.

    As far as health goes, I concede that after a certain point defense may be a better choice for Nubs. However, unless Kozar's passives are broken, it would seem likely that health is always going to beat out defense for him, based on the fact that he gets bonus attack from addition health.
  • kalamadeakalamadea Member
    edited January 7
    Keep in mind that Nub's passive gives %10 healing based on hp.

    So health has a secondary effect giving them a larger heal per turn.

    I'm sure defense has a boost... but to overcome 25% bonus health from Nub, and 15% from Kozar.. well that's a pretty big HP bonus at 40%.. and 40% more healing per turn from Nub.
  • danacdanac Member
    Idimustari wrote: »
    @4tom

    As far as health goes, I concede that after a certain point defense may be a better choice for Nubs. However, unless Kozar's passives are broken, it would seem likely that health is always going to beat out defense for him, based on the fact that he gets bonus attack from addition health.

    I’ve been told rune health does not affect Kozar’s attack bonus.
  • kalamadea wrote: »
    Keep in mind that Nub's passive gives %10 healing based on hp.

    So health has a secondary effect giving them a larger heal per turn.

    I'm sure defense has a boost... but to overcome 25% bonus health from Nub, and 15% from Kozar.. well that's a pretty big HP bonus at 40%.. and 40% more healing per turn from Nub.

    60%* from Kozar, if using all Ogre/Goblins team, so 85% total to Kozar, 110% total to Nub, 85% total to Bramble and Zurk.
    Andre4897
  • WarrraxWarrrax Member
    edited January 10
    Idimustari wrote: »
    No.

    It seems pretty clear that you have no idea how passive and other bonuses stack.

    As far as the community is aware, skill ONLY affects crit. Not healing.


    You know, for someone who is willing to yell at someone for a video showing a better way to do something (that is at least based in fact), you sure have a lot of misinformation here.

    You might be right... but in fairness the devs are not exactly super helpful in answering questions like this. As we can see from this post already, hardly anyone seems to actually know for sure how things work.
    If Skill does NOT boost healing then there is literally no difference between Crit and Skill which makes it meaningless, which clearly is a BUG. That IS what the defintion of Skill is....boosts crit and healing.

    One thing you learn when playing games like this is that your Total Toughness or whatever is a product of several factors. In this case, health and defense.
    You generally want to balance both elements equally. if you have tons of health but no defense, then any attacker will get such a huge damage multiplier that your linear health gains become meaningless. Having great defense to reduce damage taken is not helpful if you only have 1 hit point for example.
    You can apply this to dodge and damage reduction too. Tons of dodge isn't great if you get 1 shotted when you don't dodge. Dodge/DR apply separately to the product of Health/Defense.

    If you get lots of health for free like Nubs but have awful defense like nubs, then stacking Defense will improve Total Toughness moreso than getting more health runes... EVEN IF that health gets multiplied by Slow and/or Kozar passive.

    Therefore, I believe I AM correct in prioritizing Defense over Health when runing.

    In any case, its pretty hard to stack tons of Defense without getting any health either right? So you will still likely get a good chunk of health from runes, even if defense is prioritized.


    BTW, boosting defense has the same effect as boosting health as far as percentage-based healing goes. Whether you have high defense and 2k health and take 1k damage, or have low defense and 4k health and eat 2k damage, you still get healed the same amount of EFFECTIVE health.

    Defense is actually better for STATIC healing however such as Nub crit and voodoo, since restoring 1k health in the above example is much better for the high defense, lower health guy, than the low defense, high health guy.

    Thus, saying health runes are better due to 10% healing is not a valid argument.
  • spiffymcbangspiffymcbang Member
    edited January 10
    Warrax,
    I think your level is in high 40's right? I am in High 30's. My bramble is only 4 starred and my kozar is only 3 stars with 1 ascension.
    To make this work do I need more stars on Kozar and Bramble and do I need to add the last ascension to Kozar? I am also about 100 stars away from 6 start nubs. Zurk, I have at 6 stars.

    Or due to lower level everything in my towers will my current stats work? I have made mistakes with Nim before and lost CKB to her. I tend to see her 3-4 times in my towers and I see Grog Gnog about 5-6 times per tower now since he slows and is immune to silence, many folks down here use him more in their defenses.

    I assume all your goblins and Kozar are fully ascended and 6 starred for your example above?

    Thanks, I will definitely give this a try though.
    litespeed
  • I don't think you need super high stats. I am VIP2 only and I just got Kozar in december. So he is 4 star. Bramble just hit 5 star. Rest of goblins are 6 star and Im actually 53 now.

    Most of my runes are now Heroic, mostly thanks to the new reroll rune system.... heroic is practically guaranteed. They arent necessarily ideal, but Ive put most of my best into goblin team for ease of towering. :smile:

    If you run it manually, you shouldnt have any problem.

    Running on auto, you are relying heavily on Nub nub critting to keep Kozar alive.... other goblins get the 10% heal per turn. Still, with 50% crit on nubs or potentially better apparantly, then adding Haste and Revenge for bonus attacks, youve got a pretty good chance of getting the auto-heal...and it heals for SOOO much health...
    I periodically run manually to kick off Voodoo when Kozar is getting low.


    I used to get Kozar killed around tower level 7 when I had lots of health on him.... you just can't keep him topped off. But switching to defense helps a lot...way less damage taken in the first place makes your crit heals and voodoo heals a lot more valuable...restoring more effective health.

    I guess the addendum to the above is to prioritize CRIT on Nub nub to get as close to 50% as possible. Ive got 46% with lots of defense, for a theoretical 66% crit.
    In actual practice it seems closer to 50%. Ive done a crit count keeping track of crit vs non-crit and its around 50%. I dont count attacks vs FIRE since they wont crit. I do count vs Blue which actually biases the results since crit is more likely.

    Hope that helps.

    I like Undead too, but freaking MK is like on every other level and he hurts.
  • why does no-one love the demon team.
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  • probably the randomness of the dodge. to hard to plan around?
    litespeed
  • @spiffymcbang thats why all my demons have 2000 plus HP
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  • Yesterday, with this concept, I ran a perfect tower (not my first, I have done many)
    took this team to floor 8 and cleaned 8 and finished with silencers and fast rogues on the last few floors.

    Today I took this team to floor 8 and Kozar died. Keeping him alive is difficult as he got targeted alot, and i had a few floors where I wanted to heal him but Zurk was too efficient. I do like this concept for its speed.

    Thanks @Warrrax
    litespeed
  • Glad it worked for ya! Without babysitting, Kozar does tend to bite it around level 8 or so. I can replace with Squinch and squeeze out a few more AUTO levels, but I typically have to finish off with my Fast team or whoever.

    I upped my Nub to 49% crit so I am hoping they are correct about having a 69% crit rate with King and that might help keep poor Kozar alive longer.

    It is not the strongest team, but it sure is nice being able to do half the tower on Auto.
  • leroyyleroyy Member
    edited January 12
    At level 69, it's far easier just to use a fast team. My "main" team for tower is MK (epic 9), willow (epic 9), and then two of the following: black diamond, torchy (epic 9), ember, indigo. I have gotten a few perfectionists with this team; if anyone dies, it's usually because I'm not paying attention and/or am rushing. I usually get tower done in about 12-15 minutes.

    Every once in a while I run into a fast team and I throw the 2-man team of Furnace/Astrid at them, just so I don't have any deaths.
  • Leroyy, I agree. IF manually controlling it is faster to just use the fast team. I use Indigo to farm energy, with BD/MK as AOE and then someone else...usually shadowblade since he has built in healing.
    That way you can skip all the enemy attack animations since you slaughter them on the first round pretty much.:-)

    BUT, if you are doing something else, its nice to send in goblins, hit AUTO and repeat periodically and give you a bit of a no-brainer head start.
  • Its been some time now and I would like to point out that despite the attitude, i.e. "
    It seems pretty clear that you have no idea how passive and other bonuses stack", I do not believe the passive stacking works as advertised.

    My nub nub is 49% crit, which means 69% with king. Yet, last 10 tower runs, I have kept track of crits. Including favored attacks vs Blue enemies, but EXCLUDING any fire enemies attacked and if I am "Striked" or Diseased which removes/lowers crit chance.

    I come up with about 50% in actual practice in 10 days of towering. It absolutely is NOT 70% for me.

    I also note that I manage to miss a crit against a Blue enemy, with Goblin Dance active...twice. With a crit of 49%+20% plus about 50% from dance party, that really shouldn't happen.
    Even if the 50% dance party only applies to your Base crit I'd still be pretty ok. 49+20+24.5.

    I am curious if others with sufficient runage to pull off near 50% base crit have observed this.
  • @Warrrax my Bramble has 46% crit rate and my cobressa has 40% crit rate i think ill provide pictures in about an hour since im updating my phones systems.
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    THREy neVeR LOvED PEAShY!!!
    y0uLL Ju5T hAVe TO J01n tHe r3ST Of thEm IF you oPPosE PEASHY!!!!
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  • I don't follow. Pictures of what? bramble does not buff himself over the 50% limit, so he will have 46%. if 46% naturally, he will cap at 50%.

    I am talking about how a goblin such as Nub nub can have 50% crit rate with runes, and then get even MORE from passive buffs from King Bramble, for a total of 70% in theory. In practice, it doesn't seem to work.
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