THE RUNES ARE BREAKING AND RUINING THE GAME

TenchigoTenchigo Member
I can't tell you how frustrating it is that runes are in this game and have changed Dungeon Boss from a casual fun game of tactics and turned it into "SCREW TACTICS AND JUST PAY AND PRAY TO WIN!!!"

Hardly do I ever find any matches and have fun anymore because so many heros have become broken with the infestation of these Unchecked Runes.

EMILY is a humongous example of runes being broken and destroying this once loved game. Just slap 2 Greater/Superior Agis Runes and 2 Greater/Superior Planning runes and you've turned this healer into an 90% unkillable reviving God.

Everytime I go into a dang PVP Dungeon I find out that the enemy has a Masu Kira in their dungeon and either he will be a Pip-Sqweek or a Murder Monster, and it's such a **** annoying gamble to find out which one is which.

Fast Rouges are meant to crowd control enemy team, take out certain foes, or Debuff enemies before the other team can make a move. But now Rouges and fast heros with Runes are pretty much handling every freaking role possible with doing unimaginable Damage. Shade can dish out about 15k DMG with his initial Shrouded Past ability WITHOUT A CRIT! That's not to also count the Fear put on the target, Team Dark Death Mark, and with his Shrouded Passive making him and his dark team almost impossible to counter.

1. FAIR TACTICS NO LONGER EXSIST No longer have I been able to look at a Dungeon and go "Oh boy! This team looks hard, but no worries, let me carefully plan out the moves they'll use and how I'll counter them and the survivability rate my heros will have." AND FEEL ACCOMPLISHED ABOUT WINNING WITH SUPERIOR TACTICS ( No, I'm not talking about the rune)

Now it's "Darn, they got a six starred team with Kira (or Shade), And the runes are all Superior. I really hope my highly runed team is good enouph to survive the onslaught of damage they'll unfairly recieve!" And get either lucky with dodging or Team Wiped by the Steroid Addicted Kira.

2.THERE WILL NEVER BE BALANCE, PERIOD!
No matter how hard you nerf the abilities or passives, the only way to completely nullify the amount of OP heros have is to make them nearly useless without runes, chabfe the max amount of stat buff they recieve, or completely change the abilities to not be over-powered because of the high amount of damage bonus or damage resistance bonus received from Runes. But even then there are 70 heros to actually fricken fix while 8 more pop up because of demand.

3. STARS ARE ALMOST* USELESS!
Tokens have been thrown everywhere all the time but in all honesty all Stars do is buff the stats of the hero. All you need to do to compensate is create runes to buff the stats 10 Fold and "Walah!", you have 5 starred stats on a 3 starred Hero. I honestly never bother with tokens anymore the day I saw a Overly Runed 3 starred Kira ruin my entire 5-6 starred team... 3 STARS!!!

4. PVE IS PRACTICALLY A JOKE!!
PVE used to require a certain team (except if you used the cheap cop-out of Dagrund, Ekko, Furnace and [Incert Last Hero]), But now it's either Undead Team, Goblin Team, or Demon Team. Because PvE doesn't scale with your Power but instead level, they can only hope that annoying passives or Required heros are used. Sofar the only challenges is Events and the Superior Boss Island.

5. RUNES ARE A MICROMANAGING HELL!
You could spend more than 1,000 Gems on 1 potential good Rune for a possible 5 rune slots on 1 hero out of 70 HEROS!!!
THAT'S ABOUT 350 RUNES TO WORK ON WHICH WOULD POSSIBLY AMOUNT TO OVER 350,000 GEMS FOR A "CHANCE" TO GET THE RUNE YOU WANT!!!

Thats not to also mention Leveling them up! You could spend over 2,000,000 Gold on a Heroric Rune you spent all your Gems RNGing till you got the Rune you wanted. And that's about 700,000,000 Gold in total you'll possibly spend actually managing these Runes to their full potential.

And when new heros come out every week, we need to not only adjust our Rune Spending to save gems for unlocking the New Hero, but also craft or move Runes to apply to the new hero. Then the new hero will also be either a fix to a BS issue we have with a recent hero or will be insane in damage because of runes. This also applies for when a huge update to certain heros come in and we now have to adjust runes AGAIN!

The biggest part of this whole problem is that IT'S TO LATE! Runes are here forever because there will be a friggen Riot if Runes are either weakend like crazy or removed entirely. Too many players have invested possibly (and sadly) hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars making these Virtual Stat Boost Stones.

The one thing I could suggest is...
A OPTIONAL RUNE-LESS PVP DUNGEON!!!

THIS WOULD BE A SECOND PVP DUNGEON
This would be an optional PvP Dungeons that holds less rewards than the regular PvP but would take away unwanted Rune stat boosts and allow players to fight based on Stars and ACTUALLY PLANNING! No longer needing to hope your runes actually counter theirs.

And it could be a nice breather from seeing Kira dishing out 10,000 DMG with each Kunai to doing his usual 2,000 DMG(Kira is supposed to be a Undead Counter, not a EVERYONE Counter). So you could play casually but without the awesome amount of rewards normal Runed PvP would offer. I'll post a entire detailed version of this "Rune-less PVP" in another discussion.

Comments

  • seanluckyseanlucky Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    I would love a season with runes turned off, or an entirely different bracket for this. As fun(and broken) as rune strategies can be, pre-rune PvP had very formulaic, non RNG, way to set up and counter. The same could possibly be said for runes if everyone had 5* superior runes and could set up their heroes however they wanted. But this simply isn't the case, or remotely feasible.
  • yes runes ruined the game. It happened a while ago and we need to accept it or move on. They are not going away. To many people spent too much money on them.
    litespeed
  • PardonPardon Member
    The problem is not the runes by itself but the insane amount of points that they give, especially when combined with Epic weapon bonuses.
    For example, if a blu warrior was designed to have decent attack (i.e. 2.030) and low defence (i.e. 1.406) like Icepick, because of his abilities and characteristics, if you give him 5 superior legendary runes, i.e. 3 bulkwark and 2 attack the result will be about 3.730 in both, or if you give him 4 bukwark and one attack you will have about 2.900 ATT and more than 4.500 DEF (more than 3 times the value at 6 stars!!!!!!
    So, the stars are almost worthless and that hero has nothing to do with the original intent of Icepick....so the exagerated numebers are the problems.
    Then, of course, the cost to do everything with the possibility that after having spent almost 1.200 gems you have no legendary
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    The overpowered offensive runes won't be as much of a problem when they increase the max player level to 100. Of course shortly after this they will introduce the new more powerful epic runes which will put us right back to where we are now. After all, the money must keep on rolling in.
  • I never really spent money on RUNES, but i have spent money for the gems and gold to IMPROVE the runes. But a pvp to where the runes are turned off would be a great idea for Bossfight to work on.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited March 14
    I agree with most of your thoughts, but take issue with your opening line about paying and praying to win. As a frequent top 100-type and also free to play type, I can assure you that spending money confers virtually no advantage at all in upper tier PvP. The only resource that really matters is time.

    Time to farm up epics. Time to run hundreds and hundreds of raids in a week. Time to memorize the right attacking teams vs each and every viable defense. That's it.

    You can easily get appropriately powered runes for top 100 PvP just by running the tower every day. People act like superior runes are a necessity, but rune offensive stats are so over the top that heroic and legendary greater runes are just as good as superior runes for most matches. Nothing is going to survive Koros/viperia/shade/SB either way. Superiors are largely for bragging rights.

    Same with "invincible" Emily/bauble. The PvP damage reduction is the same on greaters as it is on superiors. Just craft greaters and you'll do fine.

    The current system is absolutely terrible and it is mind boggling how long it's taking them to do anything about it. But pay to win isn't really that much of a thing in this game. I think it just feels like it to a lot of people because they see all the full epic superior rune players at the top of the ladder. They are at the top because of the time they committed, not the money. The time just so happens to open up avenues to superior runes, not the other way around. Those same players would be at the top of you instantly changed all their superiors into greaters.

  • TenchigoTenchigo Member
    edited March 14
    I agree with most of your thoughts, but take issue with your opening line about paying and praying to win. As a frequent top 100-type and also free to play type, I can assure you that spending money confers virtually no advantage at all in upper tier PvP. The only resource that really matters is time.

    Time to farm up epics. Time to run hundreds and hundreds of raids in a week. Time to memorize the right attacking teams vs each and every viable defense. That's it.

    You can easily get appropriately powered runes for top 100 PvP just by running the tower every day. People act like superior runes are a necessity, but rune offensive stats are so over the top that heroic and legendary greater runes are just as good as superior runes for most matches. Nothing is going to survive Koros/viperia/shade/SB either way. Superiors are largely for bragging rights.

    Same with "invincible" Emily/bauble. The PvP damage reduction is the same on greaters as it is on superiors. Just craft greaters and you'll do fine.

    The current system is absolutely terrible and it is mind boggling how long it's taking them to do anything about it. But pay to win isn't really that much of a thing in this game. I think it just feels like it to a lot of people because they see all the full epic superior rune players at the top of the ladder. They are at the top because of the time they committed, not the money. The time just so happens to open up avenues to superior runes, not the other way around. Those same players would be at the top of you instantly changed all their superiors into greaters.

    I wasn't trying to suggest you need to pay to win, but saying you normally pay to only HOPE to win. I never pay but I can see even paying players get screwed over. But with the Emily problem is that my Shadowblade is riddler with superior and greater runes, he normally does 20k to 30k with his first critting ability, but with a over runed Emily he does 2k...
  • Fair enough. I retract my objection :)

    Just see a lot of "pay to win" complaints lately and worry about muddying the waters for the developers. Making it easier for more casual players to get superior runes or 6 starred heroes will absolutely not solve all the systemic issues with the current system that you point out. And also wouldn't even change their PvP results much. Would rather see time and energy spent on the system itself, not erroneously trying to catch everyone up to the top few.
  • MattCauthronMattCauthron Member
    edited March 14
    Fair enough. I retract my objection :)

    Just see a lot of "pay to win" complaints lately and worry about muddying the waters for the developers. Making it easier for more casual players to get superior runes or 6 starred heroes will absolutely not solve all the systemic issues with the current system that you point out. And also wouldn't even change their PvP results much. Would rather see time and energy spent on the system itself, not erroneously trying to catch everyone up to the top few.

    The difference between superior and greater runes is HUGE. I would say they cause at least a 10% difference in win rate which equates to over 100+ additional raids in a season due to how streaks works. I would hardly call having to raid 100+ more times than someone with superior runes to be of equal trophy count a "trivial" amount.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited March 14
    Fair enough. I retract my objection :)

    Just see a lot of "pay to win" complaints lately and worry about muddying the waters for the developers. Making it easier for more casual players to get superior runes or 6 starred heroes will absolutely not solve all the systemic issues with the current system that you point out. And also wouldn't even change their PvP results much. Would rather see time and energy spent on the system itself, not erroneously trying to catch everyone up to the top few.

    The difference between superior and greater runes is HUGE. I would say they cause at least a 10% difference in win rate which equates to over 100+ additional raids in a season due to how streaks works. I would hardly call having to raid 100+ more times than someone with superior runes to be of equal trophy count a "trivial" amount.

    I'm not sure on that 10%. I'd argue that may be true at the very upper end of the top 100, but not for those who just want to push into the top 100. I aim to end season in the 80-100 range to minimize gems, and at that point it's still rare to see more than a few superiors on defenders, and often those aren't even legendary. Not to mention that legendary greaters are better than heroic superiors a lot of the time anyway. For most of the matches in that range, it's pretty viable to run a standard Koros or viperia one shot counter team, and the overkill from those heroes is more than sufficient at greater level. I don't see superior being the difference in any substantial number of matches there.

    If you're trying to for top 10 or top 25, sure, they are going to help. But as I said, the argument was more for people thinking you had to pay a lot of money to get into the top 100 rewards. Sorry, should have been more clear.
  • @Skip_Holmes

    I definitely agree greater Heroic runes are perfectly fine to get you into top 100 and are relatively easy to craft on tower gems. If you want to get 1st however, the pay to win concept becomes very real. Admittedly the increased rewards are relatively marginal compared to the rune reward which all 100 get. I push for top 50/25 for the extra medals since I still need so many!
  • TenchigoTenchigo Member
    edited March 14
    Fair enough. I retract my objection :)

    Just see a lot of "pay to win" complaints lately and worry about muddying the waters for the developers. Making it easier for more casual players to get superior runes or 6 starred heroes will absolutely not solve all the systemic issues with the current system that you point out. And also wouldn't even change their PvP results much. Would rather see time and energy spent on the system itself, not erroneously trying to catch everyone up to the top few.

    Yeah, I didn't want to seep into the "Pay to Win" group because I feel like it's just complaining that someone gets better stuff faster than a Non-Paying player would. Now if there were specific Runes that required a V.I.P level to obtain or a V.I.P level that buff all your rune stats or hero stats then I could understand "Pay to Win".

    But everything is possible to obtain without paying a dime, but it's a friggin huge hassle as you depend on daily towers and guild rewards, but possible non the less.

    The only problem is that huge dedicated players who (sadly waste) hundreds of dollars on these Runes just to be better and look better, so at the moment they are very privileged and want no nerfs to runes. To dedicate time, effort, and money of all things to these Runes and have them suddenly changed to something you personally don't like would cause an outrage.

    So either they need to add a DMG/DEF/HP/SKL limit to heros and/or make the optional Rune-less PVP Dungeon I suggested earlier.
  • ChamuelChamuel Member
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    The one thing I could suggest is...
    A OPTIONAL RUNE-LESS PVP DUNGEON!!!

    THIS WOULD BE A SECOND PVP DUNGEON
    This would be an optional PvP Dungeons that holds less rewards than the regular PvP but would take away unwanted Rune stat boosts and allow players to fight based on Stars and ACTUALLY PLANNING! No longer needing to hope your runes actually counter theirs.

    And it could be a nice breather from seeing Kira dishing out 10,000 DMG with each Kunai to doing his usual 2,000 DMG(Kira is supposed to be a Undead Counter, not a EVERYONE Counter). So you could play casually but without the awesome amount of rewards normal Runed PvP would offer. I'll post a entire detailed version of this "Rune-less PVP" in another discussion.

    This would be so nice.. I thaugt about something like that too..

    I must say, win a lot raids with green heroes is in warlord II very hard to handle.. No, i would say impossible..

    Giving the community a second pvp system.. Is the best idea of all..
    So there is a system with better loot for the hardcore raiders & a system for all who just want to play a few rounds without frustating overpowerd mk, koros or kozar teams where is the competition to find team to defeat the diffrent enemy teams like in tower, before the runes comes up & the tower is another auto-team event..

  • bvs72 wrote: »
    The overpowered offensive runes won't be as much of a problem when they increase the max player level to 100. Of course shortly after this they will introduce the new more powerful epic runes which will put us right back to where we are now. After all, the money must keep on rolling in.

    Dont give the developers ideas..
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