Death Blossom Defies Definitives

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Comments

  • @Zombie8u

    Another streak ended to MK critting through disease. Fun times.

    Oh wait no I hate this Fcking character and want him deleted.

    Time to go to bed. I'm having the worst luck this season :(
  • edited May 5
    Barleyman wrote: »
    itirnitii wrote: »
    Barleyman wrote: »
    In the original post MK is the first to attack being the first fast defender. He kills Kobol with his Death Blossom move, and Kobol's death diseases the attacking team with Diseased Heart III (passive). You can't retroactively apply disease and the crit attacks from MK have already been triggered; it just takes (too much) time for the whole Death Blossom move to run to completion. We're not in a time vortex here.

    I'm not seeing a possible bug in the pictures as shown. If MK or another defender pulled off a crit after diseased has been applied rather than before, that would indicate a problem.

    Not really sure what you are getting at.

    In the example given kobal died before any of his teammates were attacked, therefore crit should not apply on any of his teammates.

    MK's attack is AOE, all hits are part of one attack.

    That's not how AOE works in this game. It always hits the opponent one hero at a time, starting with the targeted hero and then descending by order. If something occurs when a hero dies it takes effect IMMEDIATELY before the next target is hit.

    This is why you can't kill both snake sisters with one AOE attack. You hit one and the other gains invulnerability before being attacked.
  • @Zombie8u

    Another streak ended to MK critting through disease. Fun times.

    Oh wait no I hate this Fcking character and want him deleted.

    Time to go to bed. I'm having the worst luck this season :(

    @MattCauthron I am feeling the same way. Hit legend 1 early yesterday. Contemplating just sitting here at 40,500 trophies and not pvp'ing anymore. Kira is not worth the frustration.

    And before the "you just have to try harder" crowd chimes in I have figured it out, but it's still not worth the headache. The team you need to take to beat the top 50 player's Kira, viper, lily, aria team is just so ridiculous (and it relies on Kira not landing a crit six times while diseased). Kira with all champions and aria buffing him should not be making 95% of my roster useless. But he's not overpowered and buggy....
  • itirnitii wrote: »
    That's not how AOE works in this game. It always hits the opponent one hero at a time, starting with the targeted hero and then descending by order. If something occurs when a hero dies it takes effect IMMEDIATELY before the next target is hit.

    This is why you can't kill both snake sisters with one AOE attack. You hit one and the other gains invulnerability before being attacked.

    There's a difference between how AOE attacks are calculated for the attacker (all at once) and how they are applied to the defenders (sequentially).

    My understanding is that Death Blossom calculates 8 attacks (2 x 4 defenders), and then applies them in sequence. The attack numbers are all calculated before they are applied, which is why diseased doesn't affect the 2nd and subsequent attack numbers in Death Blossom.

    The attacks are then applied in the determined sequence starting with the targeted hero, but death or other generated status effects are applied as they occur - but applying something to MK after the attacks have been generated won't change the existing (but not yet applied) attack numbers.

    I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that this is how I think Death Blossom works, and why the disease status showing on MK doesn't affect his initial attack sequence.

    I agree that having MK fire off eight powerful attacks at the very start of a PvP battle makes for a very boring and repetitive PvP experience. With his Epic (one of the first ever created) he became too powerful, making Black Diamond a poor second best for a PvP opener.

    I generally dislike PvP and don't do many more than the necessary fights to complete my daily quests at present. It feels like since Kira Masuta was introduced they've been creating one hero after another to try to counter the previous overpowered hero they just introduced.
  • Barleyman wrote: »
    itirnitii wrote: »
    That's not how AOE works in this game. It always hits the opponent one hero at a time, starting with the targeted hero and then descending by order. If something occurs when a hero dies it takes effect IMMEDIATELY before the next target is hit.

    This is why you can't kill both snake sisters with one AOE attack. You hit one and the other gains invulnerability before being attacked.

    There's a difference between how AOE attacks are calculated for the attacker (all at once) and how they are applied to the defenders (sequentially).

    My understanding is that Death Blossom calculates 8 attacks (2 x 4 defenders), and then applies them in sequence. The attack numbers are all calculated before they are applied, which is why diseased doesn't affect the 2nd and subsequent attack numbers in Death Blossom.

    The attacks are then applied in the determined sequence starting with the targeted hero, but death or other generated status effects are applied as they occur - but applying something to MK after the attacks have been generated won't change the existing (but not yet applied) attack numbers.

    I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that this is how I think Death Blossom works, and why the disease status showing on MK doesn't affect his initial attack sequence.

    Sorry, but this is not correct. The disease hits the instant kobal dies and the subsequent attacks from death blossom are affected by the disease debuff. Not arguing about how it should work, just stating how it does work. The kobal in the first spot has been widely known as a counter to aoe's since November of last year. Anyone can see it in action by using the strategy and seeing the reduced damage. (And spoiler alert, if you found a black diamond and did it against her she would have zero crits on the other three toons.)
  • edited May 5
    Using kobal in the first slot to disease MK thereby mitigating his damage and neuteralizing his crit against the other three heroes is a common and widely used strategy. One that I have personally used thousands of times, no hyperbole necessary.

    The problem is there are these rare circumstances where it doesn't.

    Please reevaluate.

  • Would love some progress, or an update, from @Joel or @eej on this. I know it's not this simple with the code, but just add a multiplier of zero to crit after all the other math is done when someone is diseased. :wink:
  • Just make another hero with an ability where ranged AoE attacks are reduced in the first round only. This will counter MK but leave heroes like Hopper and any other physical aoe heroes untouched. This could also just be a new trait for specific heroes, such as warriors. Yokozuna then becomes the new meta with immunity to MK and maybe Bovus can have better resistance too. Another possible change is make Kira's attacks like Tsume's. Damage rises as health decreases. Add a -dmg% modifier to his atk when his health is past 50%> The higher his health is, the bigger the reduction in damage. This will stop people from using runes to raise only his atk and 1-shot everyone while still making him useful if he happens to get hit and survive with just a quarter of his health left.
  • you guys just need to learn to read the abilities based upon DB vocabulary.

    100% = most of the time
    negates = most of the time

    it's like what they tell you when debating (arguing) with someone, don't use words like "always" and "never".

    DB just likes to keep their options open.. >_>
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