So.... MK

Anything going on in this front? I'm really tired of having to skip so many teams. It's one thing to have to have a strategy to beat someone. There is no strategy to being wiped or almost wiped from a fast way too powerful hero.
Anyone complaining about shade should just stop. Shade has never stopped me from attacking a team because he isn't huge deal until he does possession and even then he often picks a weak hero. But MK will stop me almost every time unless he has all defense runes which we all know is rare.

So pretty please? Do something about him sooner rather than later? If it weren't for him I would rarely skip any defense
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Comments

  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    I think the alternate skin MK has a big boost. I avoid them. So much for skins not being useful.
  • I am not in a guild. What is this "solution" to MK? Please, at least a hint.
  • you are 100% dead wrong
  • Yeah, don't hold out. What is this pitifully easy way to not get raped by MK from the start. All ears. I'm sure it's good. That's why 90% of teams use MK to start, because they want to lose
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    The teams I see that want to loss just stick in Jabber by himself.
  • Agree with @CentralCommand on this one. MK is broken, but not because of his death blossom. its his tenacity & dodge that are causing troubles.
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    edited March 23
    A haste rune on MK can also be a big problem when it goes off. I wish I used the APM game feature to get one when they were first released.
  • shiggity80shiggity80 Member
    edited March 23
    I've been in situations where defending MK would dodge both Koros and Vipera's attacks, while the rest of his teammates die, and be the only defender left. I would think "ok I'm good, I have 2 dps and 1 healer, I should win this". Tenacity pops up. Great. He does VP on Koros or Viperia (both invincible, but that doesn't matter), and then immediately does dim-mak on the other, and I'm left with a defensive runed Zen vs a near full health MK. ><
  • Agree with @CentralCommand on this one. MK is broken, but not because of his death blossom. its his tenacity & dodge that are causing troubles.

    Again, all ears. How do you survive a power runed MK from the start?

  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    Agree with @CentralCommand on this one. MK is broken, but not because of his death blossom. its his tenacity & dodge that are causing troubles.

    Again, all ears. How do you survive a power runed MK from the start?

    There are several ways. You can take advantage of invincibility with the reptiles. You can use Kobal to reduce his crit allowing many heroes to survive. You can use Bauble to give tanky heroes a high ranged dodge rate. MK's opening ability is almost never an issue. I'll take MKs opening ability over Shade every single day of the week. Maybe you've just been fighting weak shades, but most of the shades I see will one shot anyone they hit. Add being unable to have any control over who Shade attacks makes fights considerably more difficult. MK attacks the same order of heroes every time.
  • You can't use Kobal to reduce the crit when he's already killed everyone. Unless it affects the other hits once Kobal dies
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    Agree with @CentralCommand on this one. MK is broken, but not because of his death blossom. its his tenacity & dodge that are causing troubles.

    Again, all ears. How do you survive a power runed MK from the start?

    There are several ways. You can take advantage of invincibility with the reptiles. You can use Kobal to reduce his crit allowing many heroes to survive. You can use Bauble to give tanky heroes a high ranged dodge rate. MK's opening ability is almost never an issue. I'll take MKs opening ability over Shade every single day of the week. Maybe you've just been fighting weak shades, but most of the shades I see will one shot anyone they hit. Add being unable to have any control over who Shade attacks makes fights considerably more difficult. MK attacks the same order of heroes every time.

    And once shade has killed your guy your others are free. One death compared to a wipe is not even comparable
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    You can't use Kobal to reduce the crit when he's already killed everyone. Unless it affects the other hits once Kobal dies

    You put Kobal first, and MK will kill him first, causing him to get the disease debuff before he hits your other 3 heroes.
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    You can't use Kobal to reduce the crit when he's already killed everyone. Unless it affects the other hits once Kobal dies

    I wasn't just making stuff up here >.< You asked for how to handle him and I gave you multiple ways!
  • ok I guess putting Kobal first works. I take it back. Just fix tenacity.
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    You can't use Kobal to reduce the crit when he's already killed everyone. Unless it affects the other hits once Kobal dies

    I wasn't just making stuff up here >.< You asked for how to handle him and I gave you multiple ways!

    I got it. Thank you
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    ok I guess putting Kobal first works. I take it back. Just fix tenacity.

    And his dodge. Or look into it more. Seems to proc more than 25% for most folks.
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited March 23
    The problem is in this meta you need consistency to produce a strategy. If you can't determine who shade is going to kill you can't form a cohesive strategy. You just cross your fingers and hope he doesn't hit the hero that is the glue holding your attack together.

    MK's Death Blossom attacks are predictable, which is a big disadvantage for him.

    What really makes MK terrible is what happens following his initial attack when you're facing down an MK who is all of a sudden getting tenacity and dodging all your attacks so even if your early game strategy was solid you can't possibly account for all the shenanigans he's going to pull off later.
  • coeurnoir wrote: »
    ok I guess putting Kobal first works. I take it back. Just fix tenacity.

    Sorry work called but this is the "criminally easy one" I was referring to, thanks @MattCauthron . And as Matt pointed out there are more as well.

    And yea @itirnitii agreed. These are the real feel bads in this meta. Where the best strategy you can come up with is one that wins only most of the time and sometimes will lose due to things completely out of your control.
    centralcommand
  • echonapechonap Member
    Also as an aside, for any particular defense you have trouble with there are two fantastic tools you can use to get help right away:
    1. Set your defense to the defense you are having trouble with. Watch the replays and see what people send. Figure out why. I've learned many many strategies this way. I guarantee you if you set your defense to lead off MK someone would send a kobal lead against you in short order and let you in on the secret.
    2. Go through the top 10-25 or so and watch some battles. Or find one that has a defense you have trouble with and watch their defensive matches when you can. Then you can see how people crack the nastiest forms of these defenses.

    These are two extraordinarily useful tools available to anyone (guild or no guild) for cracking defenses. No defense is unbeatable (at least not yet lol)

    Agree with this post. However, I think they should remove replays for this very reason. It takes a lot of strategy and creativity to come up with good defenses and effective counters. With replays, the cat is out of the bag almost immediately, and the only thing left is who has better runes. I would prefer a game where the playing field was even and knowledge of synergies and strategy determined who would win a tournament. Kind of like before runes, where stars and ascensions were the only difference between characters.

  • I'll take Shade any day of the week over MK. You can come back from a match when Shade insta kills someone. MK's death blossom doesn't bother me, his tenacity sucks, but can be prepared for, so it doesn't bother me all that much. Its his dodge that breaks win streaks faster than an all Goblin attacking team. He dodged 4 attacks in a row on me today, all without Aria or Rocky buff. That's his true soul sucking ability.
  • Blizzaine wrote: »
    I'll take Shade any day of the week over MK. You can come back from a match when Shade insta kills someone. MK's death blossom doesn't bother me, his tenacity sucks, but can be prepared for, so it doesn't bother me all that much. Its his dodge that breaks win streaks faster than an all Goblin attacking team. He dodged 4 attacks in a row on me today, all without Aria or Rocky buff. That's his true soul sucking ability.

    I think we were specifically talking about opening abilities. MK opening ability is fine (Aside from a few out there with 40-50% pvp damage). His tenacity/dodge is total BS though. I lost my 20+ streak last night to an MK. It was a 3v1 he dodged 4 attacks in a row while proccing tenacity and then proccing multiple epic attacks.

    I immediately shut the game, raged in line about deleting MK and went to bed. I was so mad >.<
  • echonap wrote: »
    However, I think they should remove replays for this very reason. It takes a lot of strategy and creativity to come up with good defenses and effective counters.

    For a game that people are tired of playing, where long-timers are sick of the grind, I don't think it's wise to remove options to speed up a learning curve.
  • I'm going to take the death blossom thing back again. It really is BS. With the Kobal method you have to rely on one hero dying that's a negative right there. Even if he does die MK still does a lot of damage to the others still. Making them very easy for the rest of the defense to kill.

    He goes first! He should NOT be hitting that hard! Period! Nerf this pos or get rid of
    him entirely. I'm completely sick of him.
  • ApocalyptusApocalyptus Member
    edited March 25
    Maybe some possible nerf suggestions to Masuta Kira, if they can't do anything about his passives, make him a medium speed hero, if not, give certain high hitting rogues only a unique passive that lowers Their attack & hp by an average margin (about 25% hp reduction & 50% attack reduction) but makes up for it with extra defence & skill.
    Post edited by Apocalyptus on
    Total Zomminionation.
  • danacdanac Member
    coeurnoir wrote: »

    He goes first! He should NOT be hitting that hard! Period! Nerf this pos or get rid of
    him entirely. I'm completely sick of him.

    If you don't nerf him gitz will quit.
  • On Sunday, prior to the end of tournament even.
  • SkulsSkuls Member
    To add insult to injury, I lost a match to a MK with a haste rune. Vibrating palm on my Shade who was crucial in my plan to kill Viperia. Felt cheated but envious at the same time. Just for the rematch, I will spend gold and swap runes and see if I can come prepared.

    BTW, does the second turn ALWAYS trigger with haste rune, or is that based on a chance %?
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