Please do not nerf Kira

I like the little golden rogue. The only real issue I can see is tenacity can be a bit much at times. But it's nice that an older hero is still OP. :)
nunya
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Comments

  • Hopefully this is a reverse psychology attempt to get them to actually nerf him. A fast hero shouldn't be able to single handedly wipe an entire team. Also, on a similar note, it's a shame that one player makes all undead pretty much unless in pvp.

    His tenacity and dodging can get out of hand pretty often too.
  • nunyanunya Member
    @Zombie8u but he's so easy to counter with kobal. :( And he is fun.
    nunya
  • I totally agree,he can't be nerfed just because some players aren't able to counter him
  • BokiDahBokiDah Member
    I didn't spend the time and resources to have him nerfed.
    Nerfing & buffing heroes is the result of poor planning & design by the developers. Why not create more well balanced heroes to begin with?
  • BrazyBrazy Member
    I agree with this. Please don't nerf MK. There are lots of counters to use against him already. If your whole team is getting wiped out by MK then you're doing something wrong.
  • nunya wrote: »
    @Zombie8u but he's so easy to counter with kobal. :( And he is fun.
    Alecat97 wrote: »
    I totally agree,he can't be nerfed just because some players aren't able to counter him

    Should I link to the threads of MK critting through disease and dodging Valkin?

    Completely broken heroes should be nerfed. A year from now when we have another 20 heroes and MK is STILL top tier representation (It's already been wayyyyy too long), should we just continue to let him be disgustingly above the power curve? He places a massive design constraint on the viability of every existing and future hero if nothing is changed. For that reason alone, he needs to be toned down.

    I suppose if this would step on people's toes however they could just release a new hero with the following passive traits:

    1) MK Hunter. 5x damage to MK
    2) I dodge better. Dodges all damage while MK is alive.

    This would get him out of the meta pretty quickly! No nerfs needs XD
  • Alecat97Alecat97 Member
    edited April 18
    nunya wrote: »
    @Zombie8u but he's so easy to counter with kobal. :( And he is fun.
    Alecat97 wrote: »
    I totally agree,he can't be nerfed just because some players aren't able to counter him

    Should I link to the threads of MK critting through disease and dodging Valkin?

    Completely broken heroes should be nerfed. A year from now when we have another 20 heroes and MK is STILL top tier representation (It's already been wayyyyy too long), should we just continue to let him be disgustingly above the power curve? He places a massive design constraint on the viability of every existing and future hero if nothing is changed. For that reason alone, he needs to be toned down.

    I suppose if this would step on people's toes however they could just release a new hero with the following passive traits:

    1) MK Hunter. 5x damage to MK
    2) I dodge better. Dodges all damage while MK is alive.

    This would get him out of the meta pretty quickly! No nerfs needs XD

    I'm ok with deleting his x3 damage bonus against undead heroes or nerfing tenacity chance but his stats and his dodge chance don't need any nerf
  • @Alecat97

    I think if they made any changes it would be to do the following:

    1) Remove tenacity
    2) Lower the damage coefficient on his first ability

    Eej essentially spelled this out at the last summit. I wouldn't expect his dodge to be touched. The issue with MK is it's really just a combination of EVERYTHING that makes him broken. I also think they should remove pwn undead for pvp only. It sucks that the entire undead design space is completely nullified by a single hero.

  • Alecat97Alecat97 Member
    edited April 18
    1) Remove tenacity
    2) Lower the damage coefficient on his first ability

    I'm not sure about the 2nd point because it will give to shade more chances to survive and I think he's more OP then MK,but anyway Shade can be countered in many ways.

  • BrazyBrazy Member
    Yeah, no need to remove his damage on the first ability. PVP is already way too easy the way it is right now. Most of the time, you need Aria in your defense to even kill. There's only a couple of guys who really have killer MK's, and I'm sure you know who they are. I really don't see his damage as an issue. Just fix those bugs.
  • nunyanunya Member
    @Alecat97

    I think if they made any changes it would be to do the following:

    1) Remove tenacity
    2) Lower the damage coefficient on his first ability
    I don't think they should do the second. The first would do enough to mitigate Kira.
    nunya
  • I believe the nerf ship has sailed on MK. I find this very disappointing really. Defenses are already easy enough to beat if you are runed competitively with that defense. The calls to nerf MK and Shade will just make it even easier. I would like to see tenacity and pawn undead removed but that is about it. I like that his attack right now is enough to just take down a non defensive Koros and force Shade to wear some defense so that he is not one shotting everyone.

    A problem with the nerf bat is that it can take a hero out of the golden pvp hero rotation (currently about 15 members). Kozar is a good example. I still see him on defenses but I hardly ever use him anymore. If his first ability still had armor pierce, he would be part of the golden pvp group. Right now, he is a fringe member at best. I basically only use Kozar when I get the daily quest to use a slow hero in pvp.

    We will see what happens when they nerf MK. Hopefully he does not go from an all star to a bench player.
    Teal125
  • In my opinion he is broken because:

    1. he has an AOE ability that is better than many single attacks. AOE attacks by design should be weaker than single attacks.
    2. Tenacity.
    3. his uncanny spiderman like dodge ability.
    4. He if fast.
    5. 3x damage to undead.

    If any one of these things got nerfed it would help. But due to real money...nerfing is always difficult.

    SOLUTIONS - Partial nerfs all or some of the following?
    if tenacity procs, a special can not be used, only a standard attack.
    3x damage to undead does not combine with a special, only a standard attack.
    if he dodges more than 2x in a row no special to be used..

    that would be the concept anyway. keep all his abilities just tone him down a little.

    This si not to argue that other OP heroes should not be nerfed. Grog Gnog, Shade, etc...

    Just consider that any hero that shows up 5-6 times per tower run should probably be considered for a second look as everyone uses them. Probably unbalanced.
    litespeed
  • PLEASE nerf MK.

    I just lost two matches due to his stupid dodge rate and his tenacity proccing every round it seems.

    Twice now I've gotten it down to 3v1, SB, Koros, Em vs MK. Twice now he procs Tenacity, hits SB with VP, and hits Koros with Dim Mak, and then eventually kills Emily.

    Fool needs to be nerfed.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    I like the idea of Tenacity still existing but only letting him use basic attacks. I'd hate to see any passives removed because it makes the game duller, but his attack and dodge could definitely stand to take a hit. The problem is that runes don't scale, so even if you nerfed MK's attack by 200 points (a lot of you look at his base stats compared to other heroes' base stats) you're not hampering him much because he still gets 800+ Attack from those superior power runes.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • I like the idea of Tenacity still existing but only letting him use basic attacks. I'd hate to see any passives removed because it makes the game duller, but his attack and dodge could definitely stand to take a hit. The problem is that runes don't scale, so even if you nerfed MK's attack by 200 points (a lot of you look at his base stats compared to other heroes' base stats) you're not hampering him much because he still gets 800+ Attack from those superior power runes.

    Well by reducing the coefficient on his first ability, that scales directly with all the rune attack. Making tenacity only use basic attacks (Haste procs from runes should work like this as well) would be great IF they were unable to proc an epic attack on that basic attack.
  • I like the idea of Tenacity still existing but only letting him use basic attacks. I'd hate to see any passives removed because it makes the game duller, but his attack and dodge could definitely stand to take a hit. The problem is that runes don't scale, so even if you nerfed MK's attack by 200 points (a lot of you look at his base stats compared to other heroes' base stats) you're not hampering him much because he still gets 800+ Attack from those superior power runes.

    His attack doesn't bother me quite as much as the tenacity/dodge issue. His survivability is too great and then seems to get double moves quite frequently.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    I like the idea of Tenacity still existing but only letting him use basic attacks. I'd hate to see any passives removed because it makes the game duller, but his attack and dodge could definitely stand to take a hit. The problem is that runes don't scale, so even if you nerfed MK's attack by 200 points (a lot of you look at his base stats compared to other heroes' base stats) you're not hampering him much because he still gets 800+ Attack from those superior power runes.

    His attack doesn't bother me quite as much as the tenacity/dodge issue. His survivability is too great and then seems to get double moves quite frequently.

    Agreed. Maybe since Black Diamond has an increased chance to dodged ranged attacks, MK can get a passive in place of Shifty that only works for melee attacks. It would be a start, at least.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • BokiDahBokiDah Member
    edited April 18
    I'd be willing to bet that most players love their MK but dislike everyone else's. I battle them regularly in pvp and with quite a bit of success. As for your undead... auto run the tower & campaign dungeons with them. I wouldn't have a problem with giving up tenacity. That's a bit much.
  • nunyanunya Member
    edited April 18
    Yes @echonap nerf the other Kiras. But mine is weak and needs no nerf.
    nunya
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited April 18
    nearly always I prefer MK to use an ability over a basic attack. The epic attack is disgustingly strong. Many times I am faced with the opportunity to silence MK with my rocky and choose not to!

    MK is undoubtedly too strong.

    - Fast hero
    - Can get two turns in one
    - Dodges
    - All his abilities are hard hitting attack abilities with low cooldowns
    - Can prevent you from healing
    - His epic attack kills almost everything on the spot
    - Completely removes undead from the pvp meta single handedly (ember and yasmin do not do this despite having same passive)
    - Immune to critical hits making him too durable for a fast hero glass cannon

    My input would be to change dodge a bit. If a hero dodges an attack he should not be able to dodge the next consecutive attack. You could even raise the dodge rate a bit to compensate.

    What dodging does is creates an illusion of immunity. You as the oppossing player don't want to attack a hero that can dodge for fear that you are wasting your attack for the chance it does nothing. So in a game where attack power is so highly scaled that matches last only a round or two at most it is highly risky to attack a hero with high dodge first. So if a hero that dodges also has huge attack power you find yourself in a precarious position.
    Ranked top 10 every PVP season to date.
    https://postimg.org/gallery/38mjf91kk/
    Pre-seasons: 6th, 6th, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th, 1st, 10th, 5th
    Seasons: 6th, 5th
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    A tiny buff you could give to Rocky would be if someone (MK) dodges his silencing yell, the other foes still take damage. Same for any other AoE that works like that.

    Heh... what if they made it so if MK misses his first target both times with Death Blossom, he gives up and stops the attack?
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • @itirnitii

    You probably just haven't figured out how to counter him yet. Your signature shows a solid lack of pvp experience.

    Sorry Nunya, I couldn't help myself :P
  • nunya wrote: »
    @MattCauthron I like Kira. I am afraid that you are going to yell loud enough that he will become just another bench warmer. :(

    The voice of one in a large crowd is relatively quiet. The voice of many carries far. I simply want what is best for the long term health of this game. MK in his current state is definitely not that.
  • BrazyBrazy Member
    edited April 18
    Nerfing Shade or MK would make PVP boring af. MK, even with his dodge and tenacity keeps things interesting. Top players are getting huge streaks now with the EMH change, and that's with raiding Hard only.I know I might be the minority here, but I actually liked PVP more when it was just facing super hard players (just not the same 10-20 players). Getting a 20 win streak felt like a huge accomplishment. Now I get 50+ and it feels empty.
  • Someone else suggested this in a different thread, but what about just changing the order of his specials, sort of like what they did with Zen? Maybe:
    1) Dim Mak
    2) Death Blossom
    3) Vibrating Palm
    or some other variation, so long as his opener wasn't an AOE. That would make him more like Shadowblade, still viable, but prevent opening defenses from wiping a team on the 1st attack.
    To me, that seems more fair and he would be used, but likely not be the ubiquitous default choice for most as it is now.
  • MattCauthronMattCauthron Member
    edited April 18
    Brazy wrote: »
    Nerfing Shade or MK would make PVP boring af. MK even with his dodge and tenacity keeps thinks interesting. Top players are getting huge streaks now with the EMH change, and that's with raiding Hard only.I know I might be the minority here, but I actually liked PVP more when it was just facing super hard players (just not the same 10-20 players). Getting a 20 win streak felt like a huge accomplishment. Now I get 50+ and it feels empty.

    There was nothing "hard" about top player defenses. There was only gambling. Some people enjoy gambling. Others do not. Runes helped you weight the odds.

    I no longer feel like I'm rolling dice at my phone screen ad nauseum every day. Personally, it's a much more enjoyable experience to feel like I'm back in the driving seat as opposed to simply pulling the slot machine lever one more time.

    Edit: I should also note that you and Nunya both have top 50 roster powers in this entire game. As someone who gets told this quite frequently, I think I can safely say "Your pvp experience is not representative of the majority".
  • BrazyBrazy Member
    Brazy wrote: »
    Nerfing Shade or MK would make PVP boring af. MK even with his dodge and tenacity keeps thinks interesting. Top players are getting huge streaks now with the EMH change, and that's with raiding Hard only.I know I might be the minority here, but I actually liked PVP more when it was just facing super hard players (just not the same 10-20 players). Getting a 20 win streak felt like a huge accomplishment. Now I get 50+ and it feels empty.

    There was nothing "hard" about top player defenses. There was only gambling. Some people enjoy gambling. Others do not. Runes helped you weight the odds.

    I no longer feel like I'm rolling dice at my phone screen ad nauseum every day. Personally, it's a much more enjoyable experience to feel like I'm back in the driving seat as opposed to simply pulling the slot machine lever one more time.

    And there's nothing "hard" about PVP now either. It's super easy! At least MK can give defenses a win or 2. Tell me how many of your 9 losses were to MK?. I know from my 5, none were from MK. So I really don't get why you think you need to nerf him so bad. To you, pvp is all about offense and how big of a streak you can get. Guess we will always agree to disagree. I like the RNG. I like not knowing who Shade will go for every time I jump into a raid. I like that MK will dodge and wreck a team. Makes things more interesting.
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