Rune Grab Bags have also been updated with the Rune Change

Hi all,

As part of the Rune changes we released today - we also updated our Rune Grab bags.

Changes:
  • Prices decreased
  • Superior Grab bag added for those at Level 65+
  • All Runes are guaranteed 5 Stars
  • Runes still can be Rare to Legendary (with Heroic being the highest chance)
  • One Rune is now guaranteed to be Legendary - changed from one guaranteed at higher Tier (previous grab bag guarantee)
  • Rune types possible in grab bags: Battle, Life, Bulwark, Focus, Power, Elusive, Aegis, Destruction, and Precision
  • Random color possibilites
  • No daily limit on purchases (we may choose to apply limits at a later date)

These are still located under the "Specials" tab in the shop.
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Comments

  • edited April 27
    @Skip_Holmes I essentially said the same thing, but you spelled it out wonderfully!

    It's an improvement, but the value simply still isn't there. There is too much inherent randomness to make this a bundle worth buying.

    Scrap the rare runes, and lower the price. The sweet spot is when normal tier whales are buying this for roster power alone.

    Edit: Let's just do a basic price cost analysis. I never value material as I never purchase materials. They are acquired for free from events/stamina (No cost). A superior rune costs 1180 gems to roll to max I believe.

    Let's say this bag gives you 1 usable legendary, and 2 usable heroics (I would call this a very lucky pull). The other runes are roster power fodder. If we value Legendary runes at 2360 gems and heroic runes at 1180 gems (This balances out potentially being low for Legendary), the value of this bag would be 4720 gems. The cost of 4720 gems from a boss bundle (Valuing 14k gems at $95) is $32.

    Why would I pay $40 when a lucky outcome only gets me $32 of value. I would bet the "average" result is even worse than the proposed.

    Post edited by MattCauthron on
  • @MattCauthron that's essentially the evaluation I did in my head when first looking at it, except I was assuming that most bags will average less than 1 desirable rune. 44% are already the wrong rune type right off the bat. Out of the other 56%, at least three quarters of them will have non-ideal stats, so we're down to 1 in 6 being a rune I want even before accounting for tier and color, which probably pushes it to more like 1 in 10? Just ballparking.

    Anyway, I decided I would like to pay $5 for this grab bag. Which means objectively it's probably fair at $10 or $15. But half the time you buy it, you are going to be miserably disappointed and regret doing it, getting nothing for your money. That's the sort of feeling that loses new customers. Which means the other half of the time, you **** well better get something good.
  • edited April 27
    @MattCauthron that's essentially the evaluation I did in my head when first looking at it, except I was assuming that most bags will average less than 1 desirable rune. 44% are already the wrong rune type right off the bat. Out of the other 56%, at least three quarters of them will have non-ideal stats, so we're down to 1 in 6 being a rune I want even before accounting for tier and color, which probably pushes it to more like 1 in 10? Just ballparking.

    Anyway, I decided I would like to pay $5 for this grab bag. Which means objectively it's probably fair at $10 or $15. But half the time you buy it, you are going to be miserably disappointed and regret doing it, getting nothing for your money. That's the sort of feeling that loses new customers. Which means the other half of the time, you **** well better get something good.

    Your assumption that 3/4 runes will have non ideal stats seems high to me. With the recent reduction in secondary stats you are significantly more likely to get stats you would want. When doing analysis that says something "is not worth purchasing", I tend to err on a conservative side so no one can question that I "under valued" the package.

    Personally, if I removed rares, I would value this package at $20. At that point I could see myself buying 5 of them occasionally simply to boost roster power on some of my under used heroes with the added perk of getting a few usable runes out of it.

    I should note that if the chance of legendary runes is significantly higher than I'm assuming (I doubt it) than the cost would go up.
  • @MattCauthron that's essentially the evaluation I did in my head when first looking at it, except I was assuming that most bags will average less than 1 desirable rune. 44% are already the wrong rune type right off the bat. Out of the other 56%, at least three quarters of them will have non-ideal stats, so we're down to 1 in 6 being a rune I want even before accounting for tier and color, which probably pushes it to more like 1 in 10? Just ballparking.

    Anyway, I decided I would like to pay $5 for this grab bag. Which means objectively it's probably fair at $10 or $15. But half the time you buy it, you are going to be miserably disappointed and regret doing it, getting nothing for your money. That's the sort of feeling that loses new customers. Which means the other half of the time, you **** well better get something good.

    Your assumption that 3/4 runes will have non ideal stats seems high to me. With the recent reduction in secondary stats you are significantly more likely to get stats you would want. When doing analysis that says something "is not worth purchasing", I tend to err on a conservative side so no one can question that I "under valued" the package.

    Personally, if I removed rares, I would value this package at $20. At that point I could see myself buying 5 of them occasionally simply to boost roster power on some of my under used heroes with the added perk of getting a few usable runes out of it.

    I should note that if the chance of legendary runes is significantly higher than I'm assuming (I doubt it) than the cost would go up.


    Fair enough. Can't argue that since we don't know the exact rates for the grab bag. Maybe we are way off base and they have people buying these things up like crazy. Was just assuming they weren't getting the action they wanted on the bags, hence the re-tool and addition of superiors. I think your gem cost analysis is a good example of why I'd expect the grab bags to not sell...it's just simply better return to buy the gems outright and craft.
  • I'm probably just being cynical here, but I'm guessing the horrible value of those rune grab bags are not aimed at the knowledgeable folks here on this forum or in the top guilds, but for the thousands of less-informed players. Those folks may not have the ability to get the necessary materials or gems to craft superiors, so they see this $40 bag as a good deal and think nothing more. But in truth, it's a terrible value like you guys have said.
  • edited April 27
    @MattCauthron that's essentially the evaluation I did in my head when first looking at it, except I was assuming that most bags will average less than 1 desirable rune. 44% are already the wrong rune type right off the bat. Out of the other 56%, at least three quarters of them will have non-ideal stats, so we're down to 1 in 6 being a rune I want even before accounting for tier and color, which probably pushes it to more like 1 in 10? Just ballparking.

    Anyway, I decided I would like to pay $5 for this grab bag. Which means objectively it's probably fair at $10 or $15. But half the time you buy it, you are going to be miserably disappointed and regret doing it, getting nothing for your money. That's the sort of feeling that loses new customers. Which means the other half of the time, you **** well better get something good.

    Your assumption that 3/4 runes will have non ideal stats seems high to me. With the recent reduction in secondary stats you are significantly more likely to get stats you would want. When doing analysis that says something "is not worth purchasing", I tend to err on a conservative side so no one can question that I "under valued" the package.

    Personally, if I removed rares, I would value this package at $20. At that point I could see myself buying 5 of them occasionally simply to boost roster power on some of my under used heroes with the added perk of getting a few usable runes out of it.

    I should note that if the chance of legendary runes is significantly higher than I'm assuming (I doubt it) than the cost would go up.
    While I'm sure that's true for us, I don't think we are necessarily the target audience. If you recall, we have recently been discussing a few times around this forum how painful it is for a person just reaching level 65-70 to actually get into this current meta. Many of those people are so far behind since their runes/epics are way behind the large contingent of players competing in legend 1 and boss 100 at that level, especially if they rushed to get there.

    So here comes a package that says "if you're welling to throw down like a few hundred bucks you can skip the whole grinding for mats and superior shards/binders stage and just get a decent collection of respectable runes to throw around". Will they be optimal? No, definitely not. But will they let you play PVP if you combine them with your existing supply of greaters until you can replace them with better ones without spending any time grinding? Yea they probably will.

    If they value isn't there for the money then I'm sure will know soon enough. Like all freemium games there are a zillion metrics tracking the success of the various IAP options. If not enough people are purchasing it the price and value will be adjusted over time.
    centralcommand
  • @CentralCommand

    It's almost always better to overshoot your price and lower it from there. I would imagine the previous bundles were not selling, so they made this adjustment and will see how it turns out. I also unfortunately agree with Shiggity that the target market for this is probably the uniformed/ignorant player or mega whales looking for an easy way to max roster power.

    Cost analysis is always a fun little exercise though! No harm in seeing if it's actually worth purchasing to the informed player. I will continue to tell anyone who asks not to buy rune bundles.
  • If anyone is interested in a sample size of what you get with these bags, i've posted a video on my channel. YouTube.com/c/DarthCraig... I agree with the consensus, paying $40 real world is quite the gambling, and when you get all rare quality like I did, it's an even bigger punch in the gut. If I pay $40, I'd much rather have a bag of each color, I'd assume the risk of rune type with this sort of change. Until then, spend real money on gems and craft what you need to, far safer bet in my opinion.
  • edited April 30
    I have never bought one of these and probably never will. I hate spending money/gems unless I know what stats I am getting. I don't even waste gems on red, green, or dark power runes unless they are att/att/dmg% because that just seems like a huge waste of gems/money for something suboptimal.
  • itirnitii wrote: »
    I have never bought one of these and probably never will. I hate spending money/gems unless I know what stats I am getting. I don't even waste gems on red, green, or dark power runes unless they are att/att/dmg% because that just seems like a huge waste of gems/money for something suboptimal.


    Mostly agree. I will tune att/att/crit as well though, as those get plenty of use on non-epiced heroes, and may be even more needed if/when skill no longer boosts crit.
  • edited May 1
    I don't really like crit unless a hero has synergy with crit. I just see crit as another RNG factor. If your hero doesn't fulfill their role for your attack strategy because they fail to crit then you are asking for losses you can't afford in an environment where streaking is so vital.

    It is useful for PvE definitely though, but I still prefer raw base attack power.

    If I am runing a hero where I think crit might be important I usually save it for blue and yellow runes.
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