Idea to Balance MK

Okay, this is just a really quick pitch for an idea to nerf MK. Remember when Kai was given melee vulnerability? He was the first hero to actually have a passive had a negative attribute to it. I think MK could have a passive called Warm Up Routine where he's Slow for the first turn in any dungeon, then after a turn has passed and he's done his work-out, he's ready to fight and becomes Fast again. This way an Undead team could have a chance at taking him down, and he wouldn't be able to sweep an entire raid team right off the bat.

I think another good change would be to swap his first and last abilities. But that's not really my idea, that's a thing I've heard from others on the forums.

One last idea I had is to nerf his boosted dodge chance to only work for melee attacks, since Black Diamond (who I like to see as MK's counterpart) only has increased dodge chance for ranged attacks.
Level: 70
Favorite hero: Indigo
Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!

Comments

  • And by Slow I meant Normal speed, sorry. Meant to say he was Slowed.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • Okay, this is just a really quick pitch for an idea to nerf MK. Remember when Kai was given melee vulnerability? He was the first hero to actually have a passive had a negative attribute to it. I think MK could have a passive called Warm Up Routine where he's Slow for the first turn in any dungeon, then after a turn has passed and he's done his work-out, he's ready to fight and becomes Fast again. This way an Undead team could have a chance at taking him down, and he wouldn't be able to sweep an entire raid team right off the bat.

    I think another good change would be to swap his first and last abilities. But that's not really my idea, that's a thing I've heard from others on the forums.

    One last idea I had is to nerf his boosted dodge chance to only work for melee attacks, since Black Diamond (who I like to see as MK's counterpart) only has increased dodge chance for ranged attacks.

    The last thing we need is another mechanic that fux0rs up the turn order.
  • shiggity80 wrote: »
    Okay, this is just a really quick pitch for an idea to nerf MK. Remember when Kai was given melee vulnerability? He was the first hero to actually have a passive had a negative attribute to it. I think MK could have a passive called Warm Up Routine where he's Slow for the first turn in any dungeon, then after a turn has passed and he's done his work-out, he's ready to fight and becomes Fast again. This way an Undead team could have a chance at taking him down, and he wouldn't be able to sweep an entire raid team right off the bat.

    I think another good change would be to swap his first and last abilities. But that's not really my idea, that's a thing I've heard from others on the forums.

    One last idea I had is to nerf his boosted dodge chance to only work for melee attacks, since Black Diamond (who I like to see as MK's counterpart) only has increased dodge chance for ranged attacks.

    The last thing we need is another mechanic that fux0rs up the turn order.

    It wouldn't mess it up too bad. He's just basically Slowed the first turn, the game knows how to deal with heroes being Slowed and coming off of being Slowed.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • shiggity80 wrote: »
    Okay, this is just a really quick pitch for an idea to nerf MK. Remember when Kai was given melee vulnerability? He was the first hero to actually have a passive had a negative attribute to it. I think MK could have a passive called Warm Up Routine where he's Slow for the first turn in any dungeon, then after a turn has passed and he's done his work-out, he's ready to fight and becomes Fast again. This way an Undead team could have a chance at taking him down, and he wouldn't be able to sweep an entire raid team right off the bat.

    I think another good change would be to swap his first and last abilities. But that's not really my idea, that's a thing I've heard from others on the forums.

    One last idea I had is to nerf his boosted dodge chance to only work for melee attacks, since Black Diamond (who I like to see as MK's counterpart) only has increased dodge chance for ranged attacks.

    The last thing we need is another mechanic that fux0rs up the turn order.

    It wouldn't mess it up too bad. He's just basically Slowed the first turn, the game knows how to deal with heroes being Slowed and coming off of being Slowed.

    I agree that this would jack up the order and there would be three posts here a day calling foul/bug.

    Kira in the first spot and followed by three fast heroes. Kira makes it to the end of the round with dodges and wushu. Then Kira procs tenacity, and starts the next round as the first fast hero. So he will get three turns in a row for the defense and depending on who is left for the offense possibly just three turns in a row.

    Let's be honest. Kira would still be a top hero if he was normal speed overall. Very durable, dodge, massive aoe, no crits against him.
  • Plus tenacity!
  • shiggity80 wrote: »
    Okay, this is just a really quick pitch for an idea to nerf MK. Remember when Kai was given melee vulnerability? He was the first hero to actually have a passive had a negative attribute to it. I think MK could have a passive called Warm Up Routine where he's Slow for the first turn in any dungeon, then after a turn has passed and he's done his work-out, he's ready to fight and becomes Fast again. This way an Undead team could have a chance at taking him down, and he wouldn't be able to sweep an entire raid team right off the bat.

    I think another good change would be to swap his first and last abilities. But that's not really my idea, that's a thing I've heard from others on the forums.

    One last idea I had is to nerf his boosted dodge chance to only work for melee attacks, since Black Diamond (who I like to see as MK's counterpart) only has increased dodge chance for ranged attacks.

    The last thing we need is another mechanic that fux0rs up the turn order.

    It wouldn't mess it up too bad. He's just basically Slowed the first turn, the game knows how to deal with heroes being Slowed and coming off of being Slowed.

    Really? You gotta be kidding me. Of course it would mess it up. We already have several characters that can change speed/turn order: Icebloom, Ponti, and Hopper. We also have 2 heroes that have AOE moves that slow heroes (Bovus and GG), but their moves are more intuitive than IB, Ponti, and Hopper. How many threads do we have complaining about messed up order with IB and Ponti alone?
  • @shiggity80

    I have to agree with Jack on this one. It's definitely an interesting idea and I don't see it "messing up" anything. He's normal speed round 1, and fast speed round 2. It's not exactly complicated? If if he was hit by bovus or GG round 1, he would simply move during the slow phase that round.


  • Exactly. It's not like Icebloom or Ponti "mess up" order, their abilities and speed alterations work exactly as intended. Ponti dies and becomes Slow, forcing the next Normal speed hero to go instead, and Icebloom Slows on basic attacks. It's not buggy or broken, it's just people not understanding turn order.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • it's exactly like the status of shade, and bauble. lasts one round and then goes away. his default speed would be fast, he would just have a slow debuff that lasts one round.

    it wouldn't address the tenacity and the dodge issue, but if they didn't want to adjust his damage multiplier on death blossom, this would be a great way to counter that.

    with normal speed round one, it gives the attacker a chance to counter him, rather than being beat to death by the opening move.
  • oredith wrote: »
    it's exactly like the status of shade, and bauble. lasts one round and then goes away. his default speed would be fast, he would just have a slow debuff that lasts one round.

    it wouldn't address the tenacity and the dodge issue, but if they didn't want to adjust his damage multiplier on death blossom, this would be a great way to counter that.

    with normal speed round one, it gives the attacker a chance to counter him, rather than being beat to death by the opening move.

    I think his dodge oughtta be nerfed as well, and Tenacity should be predictable. It honest annoys me when I use MK in PvE too, since balancing energy and heals becomes random with him on board.

    Maybe Tenacity procs only on every 4th turn, but it's guaranteed to?
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • There's no need to mess up any turn orders (Tenacity procs mess things up enough already).
    Just give MK "normal" speed - all the time that is, not just first turn.
    His offensive capabilities are on par with slower speed heroes anyhow.
    What with Wushu and dodging he's still plenty tanky.
  • edited May 7
    Agreed. Even if he was normal speed he would be balanced. He hits as hard as many slow heroes do! Yet somehow people actually believe he is fine as is?

    Is there any other fast hero that has an aoe as the first special though? I like that he fills that niche it just shouldn't be so strong. Death Blossom should basically be an attack that doesn't kill anyone but whittles everyone down. Problem is attack values are so out of control matches end too quickly, so attacks that don't immediately remove your opponents threats aren't influential enough.

    When someone leads their defense with MK it immediately makes a large portion of offensive hero choices you can bring obsolete, because they will either die guaranteed or live with such little HP that you have to end the match the first turn or you have no hope of recovering. Then depending on the other three heroes in the defense that pool of heroes you can bring dwindles down further. It is so toxicly stifling.

    Making him normal speed seems fine to me though, but again I like having a fast hero with an opening aoe, the numbers are just out of control.

    edit: Just realized I forgot about black diamond. Doesn't anyone notice how much stronger MK is than BD?! BD isn't even half as good as MK yet people still think he is fine? It just baffles me completely.
  • itirnitii wrote: »
    Agreed. Even if he was normal speed he would be balanced. He hits as hard as many slow heroes do! Yet somehow people actually believe he is fine as is?

    Is there any other fast hero that has an aoe as the first special though? I like that he fills that niche it just shouldn't be so strong. Death Blossom should basically be an attack that doesn't kill anyone but whittles everyone down. Problem is attack values are so out of control matches end too quickly, so attacks that don't immediately remove your opponents threats aren't influential enough.

    When someone leads their defense with MK it immediately makes a large portion of offensive hero choices you can bring obsolete, because they will either die guaranteed or live with such little HP that you have to end the match the first turn or you have no hope of recovering. Then depending on the other three heroes in the defense that pool of heroes you can bring dwindles down further. It is so toxicly stifling.

    Making him normal speed seems fine to me though, but again I like having a fast hero with an opening aoe, the numbers are just out of control.

    edit: Just realized I forgot about black diamond. Doesn't anyone notice how much stronger MK is than BD?! BD isn't even half as good as MK yet people still think he is fine? It just baffles me completely.

    It used to be the other way around. MK used to not have Tenacity, and Pignius used to have a passive that buffed Crit Damage. Since BD also had a passive that buffed Crit Damage, people would run Defense teams with BD and Pignius on them. This was before Aria, too, so those were basically the only two heroes anyone needed. Then they could just fill the last 2 defending slots with other annoying heroes like Ponti or IGOROK, but BD would usually 1-shot your team anyways.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • With Kira's surprisingly high tanking ability, dodge, and wushu he would still be ridiculous as a normal hero. Granted he is insanely ridiculous as a fast, normal would be slightly better but still way more powerful than most normal heroes (even legendary ones).
  • Zombie8u wrote: »
    With Kira's surprisingly high tanking ability, dodge, and wushu he would still be ridiculous as a normal hero. Granted he is insanely ridiculous as a fast, normal would be slightly better but still way more powerful than most normal heroes (even legendary ones).

    I still don't think anything should be completely removed. That's as ridiculous as the people saying he's fine the way he is. Perhaps making him Normal, making Tenacity proc every 4th turn so it's more predictable (or maybe even changing what it does entirely), swapping his first and last abilities, and then lowering his base Atk, Hp, and Def. Maybe just then, he'd be balanced.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • Zombie8u wrote: »
    With Kira's surprisingly high tanking ability, dodge, and wushu he would still be ridiculous as a normal hero. Granted he is insanely ridiculous as a fast, normal would be slightly better but still way more powerful than most normal heroes (even legendary ones).

    I still don't think anything should be completely removed. That's as ridiculous as the people saying he's fine the way he is. Perhaps making him Normal, making Tenacity proc every 4th turn so it's more predictable (or maybe even changing what it does entirely), swapping his first and last abilities, and then lowering his base Atk, Hp, and Def. Maybe just then, he'd be balanced.

    Well tenacity was added in a balance patch. Wouldn't adding tenacity in the first place be as "ridiculous" as removing it following that logic? ie: changing the core of a hero.
  • Zombie8u wrote: »
    With Kira's surprisingly high tanking ability, dodge, and wushu he would still be ridiculous as a normal hero. Granted he is insanely ridiculous as a fast, normal would be slightly better but still way more powerful than most normal heroes (even legendary ones).

    I still don't think anything should be completely removed. That's as ridiculous as the people saying he's fine the way he is. Perhaps making him Normal, making Tenacity proc every 4th turn so it's more predictable (or maybe even changing what it does entirely), swapping his first and last abilities, and then lowering his base Atk, Hp, and Def. Maybe just then, he'd be balanced.

    Well tenacity was added in a balance patch. Wouldn't adding tenacity in the first place be as "ridiculous" as removing it following that logic? ie: changing the core of a hero.

    I suppose it wouldn't be too much to ask. I do hate the randomness of it. Perhaps it could be removed, but to compensate, they could add another passive to him, one that makes him unique in a sense but isn't as powerful as Tenacity?

    Perhaps, to add to the whole theme of being a ninja of good who banishes the Undead, something like Undead Vendetta (Revenge attacks against Undead enemies who Crit any ally)? I mean, it wouldn't do much in PvP as nobody brings Undead against MK anyways, but would keep him just strong enough to still be viable, and he would be even better in PvE.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • Stop trying to ruin my Kira. I adore him, he is little, and golden, and cute. And the fast speed suits my attention span.
    nunya
  • He doesn't need a nerf, the rune mechanics need changed so you can't have every rune be an atk rune. Changing all these heroes like switching Zen's abilities is just stupid. The rune fix should be simple.
  • He doesn't need a nerf, the rune mechanics need changed so you can't have every rune be an atk rune. Changing all these heroes like switching Zen's abilities is just stupid. The rune fix should be simple.

    How exactly would changing every single Rune be simple? Remember with the last change, runes we already had weren't altered. I doubt it's even possible for them to change runes we've already made, meaning all the OP MK's with maxed champion and power runes will stay as they are.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • edited May 11
    I didn't mean change the stats of every rune, I meant allow only type of each rune on a hero. Like Shade would not be able to have 5 Power runes, you would have to pick others like Destruction, Insight, Tactics, since he has 5 dark slots they all have to be different. Same should go for all heroes and count for all runes. If you have a dark power rune already, you wouldn't be able use a fire power rune. I thought the point of runes in the words of the devs were to "balance" your hero. This would mean raising all their stats, not runing Rocky so that his Sonic Screech wipes out the entire team.
  • I didn't mean change the stats of every rune, I meant allow only type of each rune on a hero. Like Shade would not be able to have 5 Power runes, you would have to pick others like Destruction, Insight, Tactics, since he has 5 dark slots they all have to be different. Same should go for all heroes and count for all runes. If you have a dark power rune already, you wouldn't be able use a fire power rune. I thought the point of runes in the words of the devs were to "balance" your hero. This would mean raising all their stats, not runing Rocky so that his Sonic Screech wipes out the entire team.

    The devs also did mention you could rune your heroes any way you liked. I remember one statement that went something like, "Want to make your IGOROK have high Crit chance? Go right ahead!" but of course, nobody would even think of doing that. Just because the option is there doesn't mean it's going to be taken or followed (Cough, resist runes, cough), so obviously everyone went to their MK and buffed his damage up the wazoo. I think a good way to balance PvP and Runes could maybe be to add an effect to heroes in PvP where their Runes only add 50% of the stats, so that an MK, while still strong, won't be able to wipe out an entire team. Of course... I guess if your bulwark/life runes are halved as well, he would still do lots of damage, but... I dunno. Hopefully they'll figure something out. :/
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
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