May 15th Update: Skill Rework

13

Comments

  • That's just the order of operations. Fan of Knives adds +15% crit chance. Disease may make MK's crit chance 0% but the +15% crit chance is applied because the attack has that innate bonus. so 0% + 15% = 15% chance to crit. Adding code to dynamically check to see whether MK has diseased applied to him before the attack goes, then removing this bonus in that case would be a coding nightmare. Hence why we haven't seen it fixed.
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    That's just the order of operations. Fan of Knives adds +15% crit chance. Disease may make MK's crit chance 0% but the +15% crit chance is applied because the attack has that innate bonus. so 0% + 15% = 15% chance to crit. Adding code to dynamically check to see whether MK has diseased applied to him before the attack goes, then removing this bonus in that case would be a coding nightmare. Hence why we haven't seen it fixed.

    I commonly see 5 out 6 hits crit on Fan of knives after MK is diseased. It can't be only a 15% chance. I don't see how it can be that hard to fix. I think it was just a minor oversight and devs prefer to work on new stuff instead of fixing bugs.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    The one or two times I tried my furnace in PVP since the update he couldn't even burn my foes, and he's been a burnin' fool up till now.

    Curious why that is?
  • sirtainly wrote: »
    The one or two times I tried my furnace in PVP since the update he couldn't even burn my foes, and he's been a burnin' fool up till now.

    Curious why that is?

    When you say "couldn't burn my foes" are you saying the enemies don't get burned, or the damage from burn is low?

    I can answer the latter. Skill now dictates how much burn damage your opponents will suffer. It used to be attack. So if your furnace is all attack, you will be doing significantly less burn damage.
  • so does this mean that I can increase crit multiplier
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  • JaxBoomstickJaxBoomstick Member
    edited May 16
    so does this mean that I can increase crit multiplier

    Bonuses yes, Multipliers no. The only exception to that is Pignius provides an extra +50% crit damage (+54% new default) and this can be boosted a tiny bit for a max around +65% for the team. This equals a 265% crit damage.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    That's just the order of operations. Fan of Knives adds +15% crit chance. Disease may make MK's crit chance 0% but the +15% crit chance is applied because the attack has that innate bonus. so 0% + 15% = 15% chance to crit. Adding code to dynamically check to see whether MK has diseased applied to him before the attack goes, then removing this bonus in that case would be a coding nightmare. Hence why we haven't seen it fixed.

    Fan of Knives?? What is that...? Is that just another name for Death Blossom?
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • That's just the order of operations. Fan of Knives adds +15% crit chance. Disease may make MK's crit chance 0% but the +15% crit chance is applied because the attack has that innate bonus. so 0% + 15% = 15% chance to crit. Adding code to dynamically check to see whether MK has diseased applied to him before the attack goes, then removing this bonus in that case would be a coding nightmare. Hence why we haven't seen it fixed.

    Fan of Knives?? What is that...? Is that just another name for Death Blossom?

    LOL, yeah ... Diablo Demon Hunter move. Fan of Knives ... Death Blossom ... same thing ... not sure I even realize I use the two interchangeably.
  • Basing DOT effects on skill only is making them ineffective and essentially worthless in pvp from what I'm seeing. I thought Burn, Poison, and Electric skins were supposed to be a 4th stat advantage. It is very hard to get 4th stats on runes and they have effectively taken these away overnight. I realize that DOT skills may have been somewhat overpowered but they have taken this skill change as an opportunity to render them useless. I have seen no way to add enough skill to make them effective, especially in pvp. I think they should call this update what it is: a minor skill rework with a major rune skin nerf
  • Basing DOT effects on skill only is making them ineffective and essentially worthless in pvp from what I'm seeing. I thought Burn, Poison, and Electric skins were supposed to be a 4th stat advantage. It is very hard to get 4th stats on runes and they have effectively taken these away overnight. I realize that DOT skills may have been somewhat overpowered but they have taken this skill change as an opportunity to render them useless. I have seen no way to add enough skill to make them effective, especially in pvp. I think they should call this update what it is: a minor skill rework with a major rune skin nerf

    Yeah, I agree. Skin runes were in my opinion a great equilizer for the MK/fast hero issues. Those skin runes make tank teams viable. Oh you have an 8k MK leading? Followed by Shade, SB, etc? Okay. I'll bring full DR Tank squad and out sustain you.

    With burn/poison damaged being nerfed so bad, and the lack of attention to the repeated issues with MK, etc. This feels like you have taken the little bit of diversity we had and stripped it away. I don't like having to use Leo/Emily as a crutch for counter play. It's very boring.

    I'm curious to hear your thoughts @Joel and @DB_Dillon. Maybe I am missing the bigger picture here.
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  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    The Effect of skill on healing is crazy. My Nub is L35, 3*, FA. He was healing 518/turn with voodoo chant. Without changing his runes, he's now healing for 3000+/heal. It basically gives me a full health team at the end of each round; I've rocketed up PvP (Warlord II). This is awesome. He only has 1 lesser tactics rune (Skill 845).

    Also enjoying the Drenched boost to Kai.
  • echonapechonap Member
    Didn't voodoo chant always fully heal every round? I never checked the totals (too many numbers flying across the screen at once), but I don't recall ever being below full health at the start of a round while voodoo was active.
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  • Grappler82511Grappler82511 Member
    edited May 17
    xandrew29 wrote: »
    The Effect of skill on healing is crazy. My Nub is L35, 3*, FA. He was healing 518/turn with voodoo chant. Without changing his runes, he's now healing for 3000+/heal. It basically gives me a full health team at the end of each round; I've rocketed up PvP (Warlord II). This is awesome. He only has 1 lesser tactics rune (Skill 845).

    Also enjoying the Drenched boost to Kai.

    I miss being able to use Gobs in Pvp :-(
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  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    echonap wrote: »
    Didn't voodoo chant always fully heal every round? I never checked the totals (too many numbers flying across the screen at once), but I don't recall ever being below full health at the start of a round while voodoo was active.

    It does a double heal - once when it's activated, and once at the beginning of the next round. Because Nub is a slow hero, he'll often go last, giving your team 1 heal on the cast, and another when the next round starts. That's usually enough to have your team at full health, but it's fixed #, not an auto-full heal ability (well, now it basically is).

    I've also noticed a boost to his heal on crit. I use him in PvP - Shadow/Kai/Koros and Nub. Basically ensures that if any enemy survives, they face a full health team in round 2, at which point it's KO. Doing really well in PvP (probably helps that I have Koros runed through the roof).
  • DeetrDeetr Member
    So it's been a few days since the SKL patch rolled out. I'm noticing that damage over time effects have been significantly nerfed for heroes with low SKL/high ATK. Previously the burns, shocks, and poison damage were based on ATK and they were a significant source of damage from heroes like the Furnace. Now that they are based on SKL, some balance is needed on the player's part and that is understandable.

    I find that there is a lack of synergy with another recent change: the rune crafting revision. SKL no longer appears on newly crafted or looted Power nor Battle runes, which those same heroes still need to be useful. @DB_Dillon Can we hope to see SKL return to at least one of those runes?

    SKL and ATK can appear together on Vampiric runes, but they are cursed by a less useful +health and +lifesteal instead of a more desireable 3rd or 4th bonus (like burning/poison/electric skins). There are some with legacy runes (those obtained before the rune change took place) that still have ATK ATK SKL, but at this point you're rewarding players who managed to keep without actively being able to prepare for this change.
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    Deetr wrote: »
    So it's been a few days since the SKL patch rolled out. I'm noticing that damage over time effects have been significantly nerfed for heroes with low SKL/high ATK. Previously the burns, shocks, and poison damage were based on ATK and they were a significant source of damage from heroes like the Furnace. Now that they are based on SKL, some balance is needed on the player's part and that is understandable.

    I find that there is a lack of synergy with another recent change: the rune crafting revision. SKL no longer appears on newly crafted or looted Power nor Battle runes, which those same heroes still need to be useful. @DB_Dillon Can we hope to see SKL return to at least one of those runes?

    SKL and ATK can appear together on Vampiric runes, but they are cursed by a less useful +health and +lifesteal instead of a more desireable 3rd or 4th bonus (like burning/poison/electric skins). There are some with legacy runes (those obtained before the rune change took place) that still have ATK ATK SKL, but at this point you're rewarding players who managed to keep without actively being able to prepare for this change.

    I would prefer the DOT damage to either rely on attack and skill or just go back to attack. Sure skill should effect the ability to apply/resist, but attack should have something to say about damage.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Deetr wrote: »
    So it's been a few days since the SKL patch rolled out. I'm noticing that damage over time effects have been significantly nerfed for heroes with low SKL/high ATK. Previously the burns, shocks, and poison damage were based on ATK and they were a significant source of damage from heroes like the Furnace. Now that they are based on SKL, some balance is needed on the player's part and that is understandable.

    I find that there is a lack of synergy with another recent change: the rune crafting revision. SKL no longer appears on newly crafted or looted Power nor Battle runes, which those same heroes still need to be useful. @DB_Dillon Can we hope to see SKL return to at least one of those runes?

    SKL and ATK can appear together on Vampiric runes, but they are cursed by a less useful +health and +lifesteal instead of a more desireable 3rd or 4th bonus (like burning/poison/electric skins). There are some with legacy runes (those obtained before the rune change took place) that still have ATK ATK SKL, but at this point you're rewarding players who managed to keep without actively being able to prepare for this change.

    Skill hasn't been on those runes for a while. They removed it when they removed Resist from Battle and Bulwark runes. The intention of basing DoT on Skill, I believe, is to nerf heroes like Bauble, Furnace, and Phenol, who are supposed to either be Tanks or support heroes, not damage dealers. I'm glad this change was implemented because Furnace basically dealing 3k damage to all my heroes with a basic attack while still enduring dozens of attacks back was just ridiculous.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    Totally agree. They swung the needle too far in the direction of SKL. Making them entirely reliant upon an attribute largely eliminated from the the game has made skin runes essentially worthless. Make it a mix of SKL and ATK, please.
  • oredithoredith Member
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    Totally agree. They swung the needle too far in the direction of SKL. Making them entirely reliant upon an attribute largely eliminated from the the game has made skin runes essentially worthless. Make it a mix of SKL and ATK, please.
    this might have actually been an intended consequence.

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  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    Deetr wrote: »
    So it's been a few days since the SKL patch rolled out. I'm noticing that damage over time effects have been significantly nerfed for heroes with low SKL/high ATK. Previously the burns, shocks, and poison damage were based on ATK and they were a significant source of damage from heroes like the Furnace. Now that they are based on SKL, some balance is needed on the player's part and that is understandable.

    I find that there is a lack of synergy with another recent change: the rune crafting revision. SKL no longer appears on newly crafted or looted Power nor Battle runes, which those same heroes still need to be useful. @DB_Dillon Can we hope to see SKL return to at least one of those runes?

    SKL and ATK can appear together on Vampiric runes, but they are cursed by a less useful +health and +lifesteal instead of a more desireable 3rd or 4th bonus (like burning/poison/electric skins). There are some with legacy runes (those obtained before the rune change took place) that still have ATK ATK SKL, but at this point you're rewarding players who managed to keep without actively being able to prepare for this change.

    Skill hasn't been on those runes for a while. They removed it when they removed Resist from Battle and Bulwark runes. The intention of basing DoT on Skill, I believe, is to nerf heroes like Bauble, Furnace, and Phenol, who are supposed to either be Tanks or support heroes, not damage dealers. I'm glad this change was implemented because Furnace basically dealing 3k damage to all my heroes with a basic attack while still enduring dozens of attacks back was just ridiculous.

    Furnace is still going to hit everyone for 3-5k on a basic attack because of all the attack runes. And honestly the rune change was just a few weeks ago, so skill was available on them very recently.
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    But people have been intentionally salvaging those runes because they up until recently held a trash stat that was relatively useless in the game.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    I was told Skill was useless, so I salvaged all of mine. I don't keep as precise track of each aspect of each rune as the more advanced players in this forum, I tend to look for broad general rules I can play by.

    If skill is useful again I should be able to craft runes that use it. I believe I shouldn't have to make hard choices between stats, too much of that in my view takes away the fun of a mobile game.

    Also, although I haven't been paying close attention, it sure seems like my Furnace only burns the one single target enemy on basic attack, whereas he used to light up the whole group. (I'm not entirely sure he is successful with even that one target now either every time.)
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    sirtainly wrote: »
    Also, although I haven't been paying close attention, it sure seems like my Furnace only burns the one single target enemy on basic attack, whereas he used to light up the whole group. (I'm not entirely sure he is successful with even that one target now either every time.)

    Furnace will burn the single target (as long as they don't resist or are immune), and has a chance to apply burn to the whole team (again, as long as they don't resist etc.).
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    edited May 18
    Here's the deal: skill is still worthless. You have to pile a huge amount onto a hero to even get a moderate effect, so still very poor bang for your buck. It just feels like the way the skin runes have been implemented in relation to the skill stat was very poorly thought out. I wouldn't be surprised if they rework it again. It's just so bad.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    Here's the deal: skill is still worthless. You have to pile a huge amount onto a hero to even get a moderate effect, so still very poor bang for your buck. It just feels like the way the skin runes have been implemented in relation to the skill stat was very poorly thought out. I wouldn't be surprised if they rework it again. It's just so bad.

    Thanks, I won't lose sleep over it.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    edited May 18
    Zombie8u wrote: »
    sirtainly wrote: »
    Also, although I haven't been paying close attention, it sure seems like my Furnace only burns the one single target enemy on basic attack, whereas he used to light up the whole group. (I'm not entirely sure he is successful with even that one target now either every time.)

    Furnace will burn the single target (as long as they don't resist or are immune), and has a chance to apply burn to the whole team (again, as long as they don't resist etc.).

    Thanks for clarifying that for me - Is success/resistance to the burning now based on skill after the update?
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    sirtainly wrote: »
    Zombie8u wrote: »
    sirtainly wrote: »
    Also, although I haven't been paying close attention, it sure seems like my Furnace only burns the one single target enemy on basic attack, whereas he used to light up the whole group. (I'm not entirely sure he is successful with even that one target now either every time.)

    Furnace will burn the single target (as long as they don't resist or are immune), and has a chance to apply burn to the whole team (again, as long as they don't resist etc.).

    Thanks for clarifying that for me - Is success/resistance to the burning now based on skill after the update?

    Not really. Just like Fatcat said.
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    Really doesn't matter too much. It's unlikely that the burn will actually kill them anymore. Just keep them nice and toasty on a cold winter's night. ;)
  • gmungmun Member
    For what it's worth I just wanted to say that I like the change in damage related to rune skins. I have never enjoyed getting burned / poisoned/ shocked by someones furnace and watching my hero die at the end of the round taking 6k damage, or in some instances watching my whole team die when Viper gets shock and kills the whole team. That wasn't right and needed to be fixed. This fixes it, good job. These effects are back to what they should be, something that helps you beat an opponent, but not the single determining factor in the match.

    Gmun
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    You don't think they've been nerfed too much?

    I agree that the previous incarnations could get out of hand, but this "fix" feels like they've just made those skins completely obsolete.

    I've watched opponents BURN for multiple rounds and drop almost NOTHING each turn and eventually go out. That's not right. They shouldn't be hit with 6K of damage, but there has to be something between 6K hp and 6 hp that might be more workable.
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