1st Hero - MK or Kai?

Noticed a new set-up for defense recently and wanted the forum's thoughts: putting Kai before MK. This guarantees Drenched on the attacking team, instantly mitigating opposing MKs/Koros, etc. In theory, the moderate AOE damage also would allow the defending MK to all but be guaranteed to take out everything (assuming you're running a Kai/MK set-up).

On the flip side, it's not the strongest attack in the world, so you do leave yourself vulnerable to a counter SB (I've defeated opponents using SB to then 1-shot the 2nd slot MK, then using a 2nd and 3rd fast hero, usually MK/Kai, ironically, to take out the opposing normal speed hero with regular attacks).

It seems that the META is MK is the 1st slot, but this second alignment caught me by suprise over the weekend and beat me. Just wondering what you think about MK/Kai or Kai/MK on D.

Comments

  • Alecat97Alecat97 Member
    Kai as second may be a problem because you can't just put zen first and remove drench from your first normal speed hero.
    Then if you're facing a strong MK would be risky to bring sb, and it's not so easy to kill a well runed Kai using MK.
  • oredithoredith Member
    leading off with Kai absolutely does not "negate MK/koros". leading off with Kai opens up the attacker to lead off with Zen, which not only removes drenched, but also provides invulnerability for Koros/viperia.

    this can be offset on yourside if you want to run Koros or Viperia as your first normal speed hero, but that locks down 2 of your 4 defense without much synergy.

    I would lead off with MK, and possibly leave kai off your defense team unless your team is built around Kai and furnace with call of the deep.
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • @oredith

    My current defense is MK, SB, Koros, Emily. Kai is one of my main PvP attackers.

    I haven't been facing many Zens from attackers, though since I'm only L40, it could be that no one really has him FA or realizes how useful he can be (I'm keeping him and Hopper in the background until I can FA both).
  • When the attacker has shade, all dark heroes are immune to debuffs for turn 1. so daeris and ponti are immune to drench. So a good counter to Kai first is SB on MK, and shade on first normal hero and then let loose with either daeris or ponti. Just some ideas for you.
    litespeed
  • oredithoredith Member
    yeah, since shade come onto the scene, Kai hasn't been on my defense team.
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • I run a variation of what @spiffymcbang suggested against defensive leading Kai's, only since my Daeris is still pretty weak, I go Shade, SB, Ponti & Kozar (or even Zomm/Brom as long as they don't have MK). Sort of a situational thing depending on what heroes you are facing. I obviously wouldn't bring this team against an opposing Koros unless I was certain my fast heroes could take him out before he attacked. Lvl 50 here, so no epics to consider.
  • danacdanac Member
    I'd recommend Kai first.
    It's how I win half my matches, when I face teams doing that.
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    I recommend MK. He knows how to cheat.
  • li30li30 Member
    edited June 13
    Don't think kai can mitigate strong koros, I tested, this was drenchd and diseased koros damageucnyfcwg3jfc.jpg
    Post edited by li30 on
  • When the attacker has shade, all dark heroes are immune to debuffs for turn 1. so daeris and ponti are immune to drench. So a good counter to Kai first is SB on MK, and shade on first normal hero and then let loose with either daeris or ponti. Just some ideas for you.

    Ahh, at my level, I don't see many shades. That's probably my issue. Ponti has never been a problem for me; MK can kill him, and Kai does extra damage to magical. Only real issue with Ponti is his death screws with the normal speed hero order.

    That's good advice, and a reason you need to have 6-8 solid PvP heroes to really be effective as you progress. I have Hopper in the background; have a long ways to go to ascend her. Figure Hopper + Shade is pretty dang dangerous.
  • danacdanac Member
    edited June 13
    li30 wrote: »
    Don't think kai can mitigate strong koros, I tested, this was drenchd and diseased koros damage

    There's a trick to it.
    I don't know the trick, but I do know at level 70, a drenched koros vs kai Emily furnace Bauble does about 0 damage to everyone.
    Maybe it has to be that team, because I vaugely recall drenched Koroses being able to do lots of damage at times.



    ofc, that was back when I was level 70.
    Since I've been demoted to level 2, I haven't seen many Koroses.
    Or Kais, Or anyone besides Rogar and Willow, really.


  • ThundRThundR Member
    Kia for the win

    Go tiki
    One is never complete...
  • Ududu2Ududu2 Member
    Not a big problem since MK will most likely Dodge it like he does with everything else but putting Kai first could lead to the attacker following up with a Kai of his own making MKs attack weak
  • MK and Zen staple raid teams have to rework their standard with a second slot Kai. MK first always disrupts those pesky power heavy fast heroes.

    But really.. you're only going to mitigate some teams from trying - there's a counter for any defense. Don't put too much thought into it or you'll just be disappointed more often.

    Good luck!
  • MelofSteel wrote: »
    MK and Zen staple raid teams have to rework their standard with a second slot Kai. MK first always disrupts those pesky power heavy fast heroes.

    But really.. you're only going to mitigate some teams from trying - there's a counter for any defense. Don't put too much thought into it or you'll just be disappointed more often.

    Good luck!

    @MelofSteel - Thanks for the advice. I made it to Legend I this season!

    I find that a cycle between Kai and MK as my first hero, depending on who I'm facing. Shade/MK combos are interesting; I usually lead with Kai, taking the 25% chance that Shade 1-shots Kai. If Shade hits anyone else, Drenched makes MK basically worthless, allowing me to follow with my own MK or Shadow (depending on who killed who).

    Having a very strong normal attacker is key though; I use Koros, but Grog has been awesome as well for opposing teams (he's about the only hero that I'm hyper-cautious of anymore). I'm at about 11,000 power now, but was attacked by a 13,000+ power team yesterday. I won, because Koros survived an Hopper/Shade/Shadow/Kobal assault and 1-shotted the entire team (my other 3 heroes survived). There's no substitute for a hard hitting AOE attacker.

    I try to have 8 heroes available for PvP. I'm building up my Zen (he's 1st Ascension now) and Hopper to add in; Hopper's corpse-removing ability is just too good to pass up (though I'm not seeing many Emily's and Leos anymore because of Hopper anyways). I think I'll eventually replace Koros with Valkin; Valkin's freeze is better I think, as I progress through PvP (I'm Level 42 now). I think my late late game team will be the Reptiles, but I only have Krexx and Kreel at the moment.

    I've heard good things about the Undead teams, but they seem too slow and because, well, they're undead, MK shreds them.
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