Defending against Masuta Kira

2

Comments

  • danacdanac Member
    But HOW do they counter?

    with their special wushu moves.*







    *Kai if he goes before can drench, Kobal can disease and reduce MK's attack, and Ferno automatically reduces Mk's attack round one.
  • farfellafarfella Member
    Well kobal diseases mk as soon as he dies, I guess Kia can dream he mk. And ferno... I don't have him so like, yeah. I dunno. There serious answer. Happy?
    Awesome Farfella guy up there was created by jackhallow666^!!!
    Also, go gorgons!
  • Oh_YeahOh_Yeah Member
    Add jabber in your team and distract Mk
  • UratohUratoh Member
    But HOW do they counter?

    Kobal counters by being placed first in your lineup, so that when Kira AoEs, the game hits and kills Kobal first, triggering his passive which diseases the enemy team, thereby nerfing Kira's damage and crit potential for the rest of his AoE.
  • WrathDanceWrathDance Member
    edited July 3
    Before I go into how to defend against him, let me just say that Masuta is an incredible weapon! I highly recommned putting all your resources into first unlocking him, then ascending him, then maximizing his levels, getting him all Great or higher max runes, and then also getting his epic, and finally maximizing his epic. He is amazing because:

    1. He's a fast char.
    2. One of his main power moves is a AOE attack, which if he is already a higher level and is runed like a mother will devastate any dark and seriusly damage if not totally destroy (non-armored) others.
    3. His other moves seriously damage individual chars.
    4. He has a high chance to dodge.
    5. His epic is a monstrosity against even armored and heavy defense chars.

    Ok now that I stopped fan-boying this char, let's go into how to possible take him out.

    1. Fear: although he can still doge while fearing, any lucky powerful hit against him in fear could possible hurt him bad or kill him.
    2. Freeze: Since by default people like to power up his attack and not really concentrate on his defense much, immobilizing him leaves him wide open; I don't think I've see nay chars who are frozen be able to dodge.
    3. Armor chars: An armored char like say Augustus who is on the same level or higher than him can take good amount of damage from the yellow ninja before taking significant damage. Now pair that same armored char with heavy armor runes as well as dodge-special runes and you're good to go. Just remember to also get their level up because since they are regular speed, the opponent may have an OPd Black Diamond and and Shadowblade on their team...but I won't go into details there for now.

    In any case good luck, just remember that this game is not all about power, there's a good chunk of strategy as well.
  • farfellafarfella Member
    @WrathDance yeah, but the problem is mostly death blossom, so since mk is fast , we can't freeze him. We could fear him, but by the time we get around to acually attacking him, he has already used death blossom. I do like your armor idea tho... my mk counter team is kai, mk, Leo, and auggie, all pretty strong. If he is really runed, I will switch someone out for kobal.
    Awesome Farfella guy up there was created by jackhallow666^!!!
    Also, go gorgons!
  • @farbella My PVP strategy is based on the speed and power of my opposing team. So first deeply analyze your opponent before pvp, play out the turns in your head. With regards to freezing, for example if you OP your Valkin and Icebloom with regards to defense (they are naturally pretty strong basic hitters), after taking the first hit, they'll be able to freeze and still go on kicking.

    With regards to a fast opponent pvp team, I always think:
    1. What is the level difference between me and the opponent.
    2. How many hits can I take in order to make at least two rounds of hits
    3. Special components like runes such.
    4. Average user strategy level.

    For my PVP offense I go in the following order: Lupina, Masuta, Black Diamond, Grog Nog
    For my PVP defense I go with Lupina, Masuta, Grognog, Pontifex.

    But mind you both of my PVP teams are OP, not really because of just power but because I tuned each one with a specific purpose. =)
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited July 3
    Victoria wrote: »
    @WombatBatKing Kai, Kobal, and Ferno are all counters to Masuta. :)


    True in theory. In practice, none of these are all that reliable in top end PvP.

    Kai drench is great when it lands, but MK has a bare minimum 25% chance to dodge it. And even if he doesn't dodge it, there's another 25% chance that tenacity procs and he gets to use his 2nd and 3rd abilities back to back before your second turn even begins, which often ruins your day. So relying on kai now and then might pay off, but relying on him hundreds of matches per season is just going to get you a lot of broken streaks.

    Kobal is probably the best of your bad options and sounds like the perfect counter on paper. But unfortunately MK is the only hero in the game who is miraculously able to land criticals while diseased...despite numerous attempts to fix that bug, it it as prominent as ever. On top of that, using him is much more effective if you haven't leveled up how epic, which is counterintuitive and a super obnoxious mechanic, similar to krexx issues.

    Ferno is still new, so a bit early to say for sure on him. Seems like with the right team around him, he could potentially contribute to countering MK. But just sticking him in the lineup vs MK does not in itself counter him, unlike some of the other intended counters where almost literally any setup involving the counter is an auto win (Koros vs Emily, MK vs undead, lily vs armored, etc.).

    In short, there's a reason why MK is in like 75% of PvP lineups. Same reason why virtually the entire player base hates him and is sick of seeing him. O.....P.....

  • oredithoredith Member
    Victoria wrote: »
    @WombatBatKing Kai, Kobal, and Ferno are all counters to Masuta. :)
    I think it telling that a blue poster considers these counters to MK. would certainly explain why there's no real hurry to fixing MK, if they consider him to be balanced as is, with suitable / viable counters.

    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • Evil_SpiritsEvil_Spirits Unconfirmed, Member
    edited July 3
    Maybe there should just be a dmg penalty for the defenders first attack. Problem solved, now nobody will 1 shot xD MK will be nerfed soon enough. If not the more counters will appear or maybe a hero that has a chance to dodge rogues. What about Kobal, Zen, Yoko/Astrid, Bauble? I've always thought it may help if Death Blossom only hits each hero once.
  • Oh_YeahOh_Yeah Member
    Add more 50 % damage to MK
  • Mati01Mati01 Member
    Quick disclaimer at this current time Kira is so broken that he still can and reagulary will crit while diseased (mostly with his opening attack)
  • wait... you can DEFEND against him?
  • danacdanac Member

    Kobal is probably the best of your bad options and sounds like the perfect counter on paper. But unfortunately MK is the only hero in the game who is miraculously able to land criticals while diseased...

    Shadowblade's epic attack crits while diseased. Since it's identical to Back Diamond's assassinate, I'm assuming she can too.

    Ferno is still new, so a bit early to say for sure on him. Seems like with the right team around him, he could potentially contribute to countering MK. But just sticking him in the lineup vs MK does not in itself counter him,

    Word I've heard is he reduces attack by 50%. That's huge and clearly counters MK's first attack.

    I'm not going to sit here and say MK isn't insanely powered, or pretend that as a level 70 with a 300k+ roster power that my runes aren't a factor, but I will say in my position against the defenses I face, MK is usually the 2nd to the last hero I try to kill.
    Shade is more dangerous in PVP than MK. Shadowblade is more dangerous. Ponti has to be killed quick twice and he's more dangerous if you don't.
    Then there's Lilly, Cobressa/reptiles, Kozar, etc etc.

    Of course there are exceptions, like sentient penguins evil MK. But then, I avoid those teams. That's my other counter.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited July 4
    @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does. Shade needs to die before MK does, but there are a ton of heroes you can bring against shade to do so. If MK is there, you're instead limited to a much smaller selection because he will rip through lots of your heroes while shade will only kill one at best. That ability to dictate and define large portions of the meta is what makes him so over the top.

    I also find SB and ponti to be totally irrelevant in PvP and consider any team using him to be an auto win for me. Same for snakes...biggest concern there is how long the match lasts because of stupid invuln, but never feel at all threatened by them. So I suspect we use very different PvP strategies.
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does. Shade needs to die before MK does, but there are a ton of heroes you can bring against shade to do so. If MK is there, you're instead limited to a much smaller selection because he will rip through lots of your heroes while shade will only kill one at best. That ability to dictate and define large portions of the meta is what makes him so over the top.

    I also find SB and ponti to be totally irrelevant in PvP and consider any team using him to be an auto win for me. Same for snakes...biggest concern there is how long the match lasts because of stupid invuln, but never feel at all threatened by them. So I suspect we use very different PvP strategies.

    I'm level 42 and regularly am in Legend II or I. I "know my MKs" pretty well; at my level/runes, an MK with a power under 2500 will allow me to survive with all 4 attackers (Kai, MK, SB, Koros). MKs higher than that, it depends if they have a couple of defensive runes or not.

    I suspect once epics come into play, it changes things.

    Snakes don't bother me because of Kai and Koros; Drenched still affects them if they're invulnerable, and Koros removes invulnerability (in addition to doing bonus damage to Viperia and Krexx).

    Probably my toughest opponents are beast teams; Pack Tactics can really wreck my strategy, especially when Grog gets to hit a few times before his turn.

    My general PvP strat is 3 fast heroes and a high damage normal speed AOE hero. Koros was the first "good" AOE normal speed hero I fully ascended; Valkin and Grog are both only at their 1st ascension and are my next 2 thoughts/options. Bovus is an interesting option, but he takes forever to star.

    Right now, most PvP doesn't last past the 2nd round for me. Lots of times Kai + MK will wipe the opponent; SB is just to kill the 1st normal speed if need be, so Koros can go. I'm lucky to get some defensive stats on improved legendary runes for my MK too, like 10% damage reduction on a legendary improved battle rune, etc.
  • Oh_YeahOh_Yeah Member
    No crying in the PVP
  • NuknfutzNuknfutz Member
    @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does. Shade needs to die before MK does, but there are a ton of heroes you can bring against shade to do so. If MK is there, you're instead limited to a much smaller selection because he will rip through lots of your heroes while shade will only kill one at best. That ability to dictate and define large portions of the meta is what makes him so over the top.

    I also find SB and ponti to be totally irrelevant in PvP and consider any team using him to be an auto win for me. Same for snakes...biggest concern there is how long the match lasts because of stupid invuln, but never feel at all threatened by them. So I suspect we use very different PvP strategies.

    This so much.

    Facing MK is such a buzzkill since Deathblossom + Fast Speed (and to a lesser extent + Undead Slayer) means I have to exclude an enormous chunk of my roster.
    I rarely bother with Tower because facing so many lines of MK & Shade gets old real fast.
  • KangKang Member
    edited July 5
    I just farmed about 75 Aria tokens running MK Aria against teams leading with MK. MK counter is MK? Aria's perfect swing also helps.
  • danacdanac Member

    @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does. Shade needs to die before MK does, but there are a ton of heroes you can bring against shade to do so. If MK is there, you're instead limited to a much smaller selection because he will rip through lots of your heroes while shade will only kill one at best. That ability to dictate and define large portions of the meta is what makes him so over the top.

    I also find SB and ponti to be totally irrelevant in PvP and consider any team using him to be an auto win for me. Same for snakes...biggest concern there is how long the match lasts because of stupid invuln, but never feel at all threatened by them. So I suspect we use very different PvP strategies.

    What I mean is this: If I face death blossom and survive, his next two specials are much inferior to the specials of the other heroes I listed, including Ponti. He only becomes dangerous again with his epic attack.
    Shadowblade's second attack is much worse, now that he has an epic.

    In terms of facing him, I almost never make my selection considering him, since I usually use Viperia. Sometimes I'll switch to Valkin, especially if Shadow is also there. But Viperias 3-6 hits [if she's with Furnace] means there's a good chance she'll kill him, and if she doesn't she usually reduces his health by a huge amount.
    The worst for me is if Mk is with Emily, since then I generally need to use Koros, and Mk's dodging becomes a much greater factor. [Barring the times I can use Viperia Lilly instead].

    ...In the same vein, it seems to me of late Shadowblade is dodging MUCH more than he used to.
    Maybe people have been loading him with skill, but before when he had evasion on I'd hit him 1/4,1/5 times.
    Now I regularly go 0-8 or more.
  • @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does.

    Exactly! My beast team doesn't have too much problem fighting most characters, but I just got shoop-da-wooped by a level 39 Masuta, and my team is all level 42 and fully reliced. I'm assuming you need tanks on your team to survive, but Pignius, the one tank I had on my team, only BARELY survived. Most teams can be beaten with most well built teams, but Masuta's one of the only ones who really requires certain characters to check.
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    @Danac I agree that MK isn't the biggest threat on most teams I face. But that's because I'm attacking with a team designed to account for him. The problem is that he limits team selection like no other hero does.

    Exactly! My beast team doesn't have too much problem fighting most characters, but I just got shoop-da-wooped by a level 39 Masuta, and my team is all level 42 and fully reliced. I'm assuming you need tanks on your team to survive, but Pignius, the one tank I had on my team, only BARELY survived. Most teams can be beaten with most well built teams, but Masuta's one of the only ones who really requires certain characters to check.

    Have to check his runes and power. I'm level 43 and my general rule is that an MK with a power of under 2400 won't 1-shot any of my heroes. over that, you need to see if he has any defensive runes. 2700+ are automatically ruled out for me; my own MK is right at 2750 and is great buzzsaw (only has 4 offensive runes to boot, since I usually always lead with Kai).

    Also, prioritize defense over HP in your runes, especially vs. MK who hits twice.

    My team is Kai, MK, Shadowblade and Koros. All survive MKs. You don't need tanks, but you also need to be careful about the MKs you face. I did see a 3100+ power MK (he had greater runes) and I didn't even try it.

    Some folks lead with Lupina then MK; if that's the case, I put SB first and hope MK doesn't do his Matrix move. If I hit, it's an auto-win, if not, well, I"m toast.
  • danacdanac Member
    xandrew29 wrote: »

    Have to check his runes and power. I'm level 43 and my general rule is that an MK with a power of under 2400 won't 1-shot any of my heroes. over that, you need to see if he has any defensive runes. 2700+ are automatically ruled out for me; my own MK is right at 2750 and is great buzzsaw (only has 4 offensive runes to boot, since I usually always lead with Kai).


    Some folks lead with Lupina then MK; if that's the case, I put SB first and hope MK doesn't do his Matrix move. If I hit, it's an auto-win, if not, well, I"m toast.
    [/quote]

    Heh. At level 70, the ones to worry about are over 8k hero power.

    If you go against a lupina team, put zen first on your primary aeo, he'll remove fear and make them invincible.
    Or you can go constructs, Furnace and Bauble, with Emily to resurrect someone.

    Also, Valkin and Koros cannot be feared.
  • MK is an easy fix. Remove tenacity. It simply isn't needed.

    Epic weapons on MK and Shade should be looked at as well.
  • Not at my level they aren't. A 3300 or there abouts powered MK, can kill just about anything in my roster. Only a few he can't kill and they are pretty much done after he goes anyway, the rest of the defense can clean up after him.

    I can not get good streaks going due to MK. Most defenses in the Medium and Hard slots have him, and when he shows up in the hard slot, I just move on. Some of these guys have him so well runed that they only need him. What where they thinking letting anyone under level 50 get a hold of and equip greater runes. huge game breaker.

    At certain levels there is no counter for High powered MK. Just move along.

    Really the only thing I can think of is super powered team of emily, furnace, koros and leo (maybe your own MK) but you need greater runes on these guys too, which I don't have and can not get until 60, so I can not complete with the guys who do have greater runes on their level 40 heroes.

    You can start to counter him when you get to higher levels I think.
    litespeed
  • oredithoredith Member
    Really the only thing I can think of is super powered team of emily, furnace, koros and leo (maybe your own MK) but you need greater runes on these guys too, which I don't have and can not get until 60, so I can not complete with the guys who do have greater runes on their level 40 heroes.

    You can start to counter him when you get to higher levels I think.
    i've been able to successfully "counter" 8k+ MKs now, but the solution may not be available to you, depending on if you have Ferno.

    with ferno, a lead off MK no longer kills anyone. maybe to 50%, which gives me a great chance to fight back.

    if a high powered MK isn't the lead off, it's even easier as you can use a combination of kai or zen.
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • Oh_YeahOh_Yeah Member
    Despacito MK Despacito
  • RocksorRocksor Member
    oredith wrote: »
    Really the only thing I can think of is super powered team of emily, furnace, koros and leo (maybe your own MK) but you need greater runes on these guys too, which I don't have and can not get until 60, so I can not complete with the guys who do have greater runes on their level 40 heroes.

    You can start to counter him when you get to higher levels I think.
    i've been able to successfully "counter" 8k+ MKs now, but the solution may not be available to you, depending on if you have Ferno.

    with ferno, a lead off MK no longer kills anyone. maybe to 50%, which gives me a great chance to fight back.

    if a high powered MK isn't the lead off, it's even easier as you can use a combination of kai or zen.

    Will Kobal getting killed first help if you do not have ferno? Or is it not as good as a result?

  • oredithoredith Member
    Rocksor wrote: »
    Will Kobal getting killed first help if you do not have ferno? Or is it not as good as a result?
    there are several downsides to relying on kobal as a MK counter.

    1. disease can (and often are) resisted.
    2. even while diseased, MK has a passive 15% to crit that can not be zero'd out. this mean MK can still crit while diseased.

    Kobal isn't ideal, but if you don't have ferno, kobal isn't terrible - unless you made the mistake of maxing out his epic as I have.. -_-
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • danacdanac Member
    Not at my level they aren't. A 3300 or there abouts powered MK, can kill just about anything in my roster. Only a few he can't kill and they are pretty much done after he goes anyway, the rest of the defense can clean up after him.

    I can not get good streaks going due to MK. Most defenses in the Medium and Hard slots have him, and when he shows up in the hard slot, I just move on. Some of these guys have him so well runed that they only need him. What where they thinking letting anyone under level 50 get a hold of and equip greater runes. huge game breaker.

    At certain levels there is no counter for High powered MK. Just move along.

    Really the only thing I can think of is super powered team of emily, furnace, koros and leo (maybe your own MK) but you need greater runes on these guys too, which I don't have and can not get until 60, so I can not complete with the guys who do have greater runes on their level 40 heroes.

    You can start to counter him when you get to higher levels I think.

    Make legendary improved planning runes.
    4th trait reduction in pvp. Even as improved runes, you should be able to get 12? 14? percent damage reduction per rune. And improved don't cost much in gems, and their materials are farmable. I think for your level that should counter the MKs you see.

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