Can we return to releasing epics with new heroes?

When shade first came out his epic was released right away. The plan was to give all heroes an epic so it made sense from a design perspective to include the epic in the design for any new heroes. But after it happened there was a big negative uprising. Everyone wanted the old heroes to becomes useful again and doing epics for new heroes right away seemed like a recipe for keeping old heroes collecting dust and ensuring only the newest heroes were relevant.

Now we're almost a year after epics have first come out and here's my observations:
  1. An epic does not make an old hero relevant in the current PVP meta again. An epic released for a hero that is already strong/useful enough to be part of the meta could potentially be meta-shaking. But if the hero was irrelevant in PVP before the epic they will still be irrelevant in PVP after. So any epics released for old heroes without a accompanying hero rework are either useless and boring or PVE focused.
  2. PVE focused epics are getting boring. We don't need any more (for now). I'd be absolutely thrilled if the rest of boss mode required all sorts of new and interesting teams I hadn't put any effort into before. But we have all the teams we need for PVE as it exists today. So even if an epic suddenly made selwyn or sifu into a PVE superstar it would be kind of a dud. We adjust our teams slightly and smash PVE slightly faster then we were before.
  3. Currently we get about 1 epic a month and 1 new hero a month. That's a problem. Based on how new heroes affect the meta that basically means the likelihood we'll get a pvp relevant epic again is actually pretty small. By the time we get to the current pvp relevant heroes it's pretty likely they'll be irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the old heroes currently collecting dust to be relevant again. But throwing an epic on them is lipstick on a pig. And continuing to try that tactic is just making epics boring.

So I am proposing we go back to the original plan. New heroes release with an epic. And do the next few monthly epics for PVP relevant heroes. Or do an epic for an old hero along with a rework that is expected to make them pvp relevant again. That's perfectly fine too. Hold off on the PVE ones for a bit until we have more info on the next iteration of PVE and what we might need. No more boring epics that just move old heroes to the top of the hero collection screen and restart the dust collection process.



On a related note, why didn't rocky's rework come with an epic? That would've been a perfect example of how to do an old hero epic. Take an old hero that was collecting dust, rework them into something very relevant to the current PVP or PVE meta and add an epic that you now really want.
centralcommand

Comments

  • oredithoredith Member
    I'd like to counter your points with Tsume. He is clearly relevant now in all aspects of the game when coupled with his awesome new epic..

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  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    The question I keep raising is what would an epic need to actually be pvp relevant? Heroes aren't using basic attacks when matches are normally no longer than two rounds.

    MKs epic attack only has a chance to be a pain because he dodges so much that he can sometimes get to that point. Shade can be helpful to kill a high DR bauble/emily but thats about it.

    Unless the epic does some passive I don't see epics ever being anything other than a stat stick as far as pvp is concerned.
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    And those stat boosts might be enough to shake things up. Basically boosting ATK or DEF means that you can focus more on the opposite when you're putting together a rune build.

    But I get your point. Basics don't come into play much on the defending side of things. But they are relevant to the attacking party because we typically only show up with one special with full energy.

    My request would simply be release more epics. They were talking months ago about doing regular releases where they would release five or more epics at once to liven things up and I would agree. It would probably help.
  • echonapechonap Member
    I just want a reason to play PVE again. I'm sitting on 500+ of each totem (not counting crafted totems). Even if the epic is useless, at least it's a bragging right.
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  • oredithoredith Member
    echonap wrote: »
    I'm sitting on 500+ of each totem (not counting crafted totems).
    I hate you.. -_-
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
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  • Yes! When Shade was first introduced with epic mods stated that new heroes were developed in parallel with their epics. Gg was initially introduced with epic as well.

    Many high level players have all epics maxed. It might make sense to release multiple epics at once.

    I don't have access to ferno yet, but if he has an epic it should be released asap!
  • @itirnitii I was thinking like @FatCat69 - the stat boosts. Also hard matches definitely come down to a war with basics. Or any match with Dr teams, imagine if they had epics
    centralcommand
  • ckall056ckall056 Member
    I'm no expert, but the Shade+Epic in my opinion was pure cash grab from VIP, and it worked - many many many many many many people became VIP5 to get him.
    I like it how it is now - if you want even bigger stats on the big hitters, pile more superior runes.
    I find it difficult enough to take down 4500+ teams as it is. I dont really want to deal with rune power like that and also have to go up against the newest , latest and greatest who is now packin 30% attack, 20% Def, and whatever else.

    Proposal is to do Epic + Rework, which was suggested I think.
    Fast Selwyn, with Epic Shatter Team, and maybe some other cool stuff, yes please....or at least "sure, better than Tsume was"
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  • TTS1000TTS1000 Member
    ckall056 wrote: »
    Fast Selwyn

    Please no. Enough with the "rework" being just a fast tag already.
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  • oredithoredith Member
    TTS1000 wrote: »
    ckall056 wrote: »
    Fast Selwyn

    Please no. Enough with the "rework" being just a fast tag already.
    i'm hoping that one of the big items being discussed by the meta group (@D_Rodd ?) is the problem of fast heroes doing insane damage, especially insane AOE damage.


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  • edited July 10
    oredith wrote: »
    TTS1000 wrote: »
    ckall056 wrote: »
    Fast Selwyn

    Please no. Enough with the "rework" being just a fast tag already.
    i'm hoping that one of the big items being discussed by the meta group (@D_Rodd ?) is the problem of fast heroes doing insane damage, especially insane AOE damage.
    My guess is there were lots of those discussion and they resulted in the release of Ferno.
    centralcommand
  • oredithoredith Member
    My guess is there were lots of those discussion and they resulted in the release of Ferno.
    while it works, i'm not sure that a VIP only hero is the best response to that.. :P

    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    I think a VIP only hero which was available to pretty much everyone playing the game at his release is a great response to that.

    If you're high enough level to be getting mowed down, you're high enough level to want and need Ferno. ;)
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    edited July 10
    You're all forgetting they also tried a thing for a while where they'd release an Epic for an older hero and rework that hero at the same time. I think it would be better if they balanced older heroes and release Epics for them at the same time. I miss that more. Plus releasing newer heroes AND giving them Epics makes older heroes even worse since newer heroes are just better by default. And since every hero is eventually going to have an Epic (I mean... why wouldn't they?) it only makes sense to give older heroes Epics so maybe, eventually, we can do your suggestion of releasing Epics with heroes.
    Level: 70
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    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
  • oredithoredith Member
    You're all forgetting they also tried a thing for a while where they'd release an Epic for an older hero and rework that hero at the same time. I think it would be better if they balanced older heroes and release Epics for them at the same time. I miss that more. Plus releasing newer heroes AND giving them Epics makes older heroes even worse since newer heroes are just better by default. And since every hero is eventually going to have an Epic (I mean... why wouldn't they?) it only makes sense to give older heroes Epics so maybe, eventually, we can do your suggestion of releasing Epics with heroes.
    I agree. I think they should definitely balance old heroes and give them epics.

    i suggest Tsume, because he was awesome before, and after the nerf and the onslaught of fast heroes, became irrelevant.

    I suspect that a Tsume epic will make him awesome again, and expect to see him in pvp much more..

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  • sirolk99sirolk99 Member
    Can we return to releasing epics with new heroes?

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  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    I say this because "giving Epics to older heroes to make them relevant" is only a temporary fix. Eventually, it seems likely all heroes will have Epics, making them once again useless.

    Such a shame that such cool designs like Sifu, Abigail, and Selwyn are wasted on such terrible heroes.
    Level: 70
    Favorite hero: Indigo
    Currently: Trying to get as many runes done as possible. Takes a lot of money, man!
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