Shade absolutely must be nerfed

EsmenothEsmenoth Member
edited November 2017 in General Discussion
Fast, high stats, powerful passive, solid damage, indestructible when spirit linking (and immune to spirit link) and then there's possession, the single most powerful ability in the game.

End this madness or else just get it over with and change the game's name to Shade Boss.
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Comments

  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Anyone who doesn’t think Shade is overpowered is either a plant, has a super overpowered Shade of their own, or is on some reeeeally good stuff.

    I agree he needs a nerf. It’s incredible they thought MK of all heroes needed a nerf before Shade.
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited November 2017
    shade was nerfed during the last pvp event and was probably still the most used hero...
  • itirnitii wrote: »
    shade was nerfed during the last pvp event and was probably still the most used hero...

    Can you link to a Dev posting on that nerf? I missed it.
  • He was referring to the “fast heroes do 50% damage” during the PvP event
  • And humorously, Shade was still able to one shot shrouded Zomms and other Tanks through that 50% debuff. I love Shade.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Shade probably possessed the team's software editor and made it so Shade ignored the .5x damage penalty. But he also made it so the symbol for the buff/debuff would still show up when he attacked so people would be fooled.
  • Shade: 50% damage reduction..pfftt I don't think so...shrouded ..pwnt
  • Be careful what you wish for.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    TopKnight wrote: »
    Be careful what you wish for.

    Why? Are you saying because of this, they’ll nerf Shade as much as they nerfed MK? Good. They should. If they nerf him the same amount, he’ll be perfectly usable and not OP. MK wasn’t OP to begin with, hence why it was too much.
  • Couple of things to remember:
    • Shade takes 25% less damage from magic attacks because of the magical passive which also stacks with the Dark Shroud passive for a possible 50% magic damage mitigation (plus more if stacked with DR (Damage Reduction) Runes and Leonidus's Anti-Magic Buff.)
    • As a "Spirit Hero", Shade is immune to all forms of Possession as well as spirit link but cannot possess spirit heroes nor be possessed by them in the process.
    • if Properly runed, shade can deal a lot of damage, but as a caster, he deals 1.75x more damage to slow and tank heroes.
    • Shades Possession can be purged as well as only last 3 turns, think about which heroes to bring before combatting a possessed hero.
    • as a magical hero, shade can also take extra damage from heroes such as koros who has the aura eater passive which deals double damage to magical heroes.

    learn a bit from this list and you will have a slightly better chance at defeating shade. (based on your own approach.) but otherwise if you do have a shade of your own, then why complain? that's the real question. (because if you get wiped out by an enemy shade, then instead of petitioning for a nerf, you should work hard to earn him and his epic weapon, then with a proper setup, your shade can make a hell of a difference.)
    Total Zomminionation.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Couple of things to remember:
    • Shade takes 25% less damage from magic attacks because of the magical passive which also stacks with the Dark Shroud passive for a possible 50% magic damage mitigation (plus more if stacked with DR (Damage Reduction) Runes and Leonidus's Anti-Magic Buff.)
    • As a "Spirit Hero", Shade is immune to all forms of Possession as well as spirit link but cannot possess spirit heroes nor be possessed by them in the process.
    • if Properly runed, shade can deal a lot of damage, but as a caster, he deals 1.75x more damage to slow and tank heroes.
    • Shades Possession can be purged as well as only last 3 turns, think about which heroes to bring before combatting a possessed hero.
    • as a magical hero, shade can also take extra damage from heroes such as koros who has the aura eater passive which deals double damage to magical heroes.

    learn a bit from this list and you will have a slightly better chance at defeating shade. (based on your own approach.) but otherwise if you do have a shade of your own, then why complain? that's the real question. (because if you get wiped out by an enemy shade, then instead of petitioning for a nerf, you should work hard to earn him and his epic weapon, then with a proper setup, your shade can make a hell of a difference.)

    We're not "petitioning for a nerf because Shade beat us in PvP", we're demanding a nerf because, statistically compared to other heroes, he's practically better in almost any way. Honestly, your list looks more like a list of reasons he should be nerfed. By the same logic you're using against us, I can say that just because you can beat him in PvP doesn't make him fair, either. You can beat Solaris teams with the right team. Does that make Solaris as fair and balanced as any other hero? Absolutely not.

    Here's my two cents on what should be done:
    - Remove Turn a Blind Eye.
    - Spirit Link should only prevent up to 50% of damage, and attacks that purge should purge before dealing damage as to not hurt the linked ally. Purging abilities are supposed to be tactical tools you use to turn the tide of a battle. Shade's Spirit Link just flips a huge finger to that because it actually punishes you for using purging abilities correctly.
    - Possession can last 3 rounds. I don't care about that. But the hero he possesses: 1) Should not have full health. I would take 70%, tops. 2) Should not have full energy. I would allow it if their first ability was charged, plus any taunts, but that's it. Honestly, I would be okay if just one of those changes was made. Preferably the energy one.
    - Haunted Past needs to not only deal less damage, but not Fear. Haunted is basically an AoE Mark for Death, adding Fear on top of that basically guarantees his target will be killed the next time a speck of dust falls on them. Maybe he could just Fear on Crits, he seems to Crit with Haunted Past almost every time. At least you'd have a small chance of the fight being fair that way.
    - Set Spirit Link's energy back by at least 1. Or 2. I know this only matters for the attacking team, but if we're to nerf Shade, we need to admit he's OP when attacking, and that having Spirit Link ready on your second turn is kind of ridiculous. We can't just make Shade worse on defense only. If you want his Spirit Link charged by the second turn, you should have to meet some qualifications - like bringing Ekko or Kobal.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    I think Shade would still be great as a Fast Utility Caster, much like Kai is. But Kai can't do damage (unless you rune him, sure, but you can poorly rune Shade and he still rips apart enemies), prevent all damage and debuffs done to him, or possess enemy heroes. The problem with Shade is that he's just good at everything, whereas most other heroes are just good at a specific thing.

    He's clearly DB's new favorite toy, their previous one being MK. But MK got thrown away because we found out how to counter him, and it wasn't fun for DB anymore. People were asking for Shade nerfs at the exact same time they were asking for MK nerfs. Oddly, only MK got nerfed because he was the easier one to deal with, and didn't bring in as much money as Shade, probably.

    I suppose they'll nerf Shade eventually, but probably not because of our pleas. It will probably be because a new Fast hero will come out that counters Shade, can link to all 4 heroes at once, bury corpses, lowers the enemy's Atk but not their own for 1 round, and can revive allies. Just wait.
  • Turns out shade is kinda useless against heros he can't use his abilities on! I've been using Solaris, furnace, bauble and Ekko or my own shade, and even with just furnace for some strange reason his taunt completely negates shade from using his spirit link on any other hero (which might be worse when he has his epic)
  • Ududu2 wrote: »
    Turns out shade is kinda useless against heros he can't use his abilities on! I've been using Solaris, furnace, bauble and Ekko or my own shade, and even with just furnace for some strange reason his taunt completely negates shade from using his spirit link on any other hero (which might be worse when he has his epic)

    Because Spirits, Constructs and a fully ascended Solaris (which grants untameable spirit.) are immune to spirit link.
    Total Zomminionation.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    edited November 2017
    Ududu2 wrote: »
    Turns out shade is kinda useless against heros he can't use his abilities on! I've been using Solaris, furnace, bauble and Ekko or my own shade, and even with just furnace for some strange reason his taunt completely negates shade from using his spirit link on any other hero (which might be worse when he has his epic)

    Because Spirits, Constructs and a fully ascended Solaris (which grants untameable spirit.) are immune to spirit link.

    This isn't even a very good point. Ekko is absolutely useless. Furnace is the only good Construct, and Shade still tears through him because of Mythical. All the other constructs, especially Bauble, will die to Shade in a second. Furthermore, Furance wastes a whole turn Taunting, which Shade just ignores. And Furnace's damage is pitiful, so it's not like he'd win a 1v1 anyways.

    The only good option against Shade, really, is Solaris. She can't take any damage from him, and can kill him all the same. Thing is, of course, Solaris is OP as heck too. Surprised OP didn't make a second thread about Solaris needing a nerf.

    Edit: Well, there is another thread. By Haxus. At least someone besides me sees it.
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    edited November 2017
    I use Ekko on almost every one of my raids. I’m saddened to hear that he’s useless. I’ll start bringing Kreel instead. I know he’s brand new, but he sucks so bad that I figure he is due to get a buff.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    I use Ekko on almost every one of my raids. I’m saddened to hear that he’s useless. I’ll start bringing Kreel instead. I know he’s brand new, but he sucks so bad that I figure he is due to get a buff.

    Okay, okay, Ekko isn't totally useless. I just think there's far better options. What team actually benefits from that 2 extra energy? It isn't even practical on Defense. You're better off bringing Ferno and Sol on the same team. She'll heal twice as quickly from Ferno's Updraft passive.
  • Ududu2Ududu2 Member
    edited November 2017
    Ududu2 wrote: »
    Turns out shade is kinda useless against heros he can't use his abilities on! I've been using Solaris, furnace, bauble and Ekko or my own shade, and even with just furnace for some strange reason his taunt completely negates shade from using his spirit link on any other hero (which might be worse when he has his epic)

    Because Spirits, Constructs and a fully ascended Solaris (which grants untameable spirit.) are immune to spirit link.

    Yes but I ment with just furnace and any other heros that are capable of being spirit linked, furnace taunting messes up shade for some reason causing him to not use spirit link despite his turn a blind eye
  • Ududu2 wrote: »
    Ududu2 wrote: »
    Turns out shade is kinda useless against heros he can't use his abilities on! I've been using Solaris, furnace, bauble and Ekko or my own shade, and even with just furnace for some strange reason his taunt completely negates shade from using his spirit link on any other hero (which might be worse when he has his epic)

    Because Spirits, Constructs and a fully ascended Solaris (which grants untameable spirit.) are immune to spirit link.

    Yes but I ment with just furnace and any other heros that are capable of being spirit linked, furnace taunting messes up shade for some reason causing him to not use spirit link despite his turn a blind eye

    I believe this bug has been fixed.
    I'm 90% sure I've seen him spirit link even with Furnace taunting. But he won't possess.

  • I am acually okay with shade. For me, hopper, zomm, and Solaris are all bigger problems.
    Awesome Farfella guy up there was created by jackhallow666^!!!
    Also, go gorgons!
  • farfella wrote: »
    I am acually okay with shade. For me, hopper, zomm, and Solaris are all bigger problems.

    Hopper, no. Solaris, no. Zomm, yes.

    That's *my* kill order, at least, Zomm, Shade [hopper] Solaris.
    Most Hoppers are lo damage so I can just sit there and wait until she's last bunny standing.
    Same with Solaris, let her be until I can negate her immolation.
    But Shade will link then possess. Best to take him out asap.
  • farfellafarfella Member
    edited November 2017
    Oh. Sometimes hopper kills my koros, so I don't use koros against her anymore. That complicates things. Also, yeah that Solaris thing works but sometimes they have really defensive pigs or lions and then that makes things not fun. I think I am making solaris a larger problem in my head than she acually is. Same with hopper.
    Awesome Farfella guy up there was created by jackhallow666^!!!
    Also, go gorgons!
  • I hate Shade. I avoid him like the plague. I have gotten destroyed many times by an underpowered Shade too often- sometimes three Stars with mediocre runes and no epic. He is the only hero I actively will not go against.
  • FatCat69 wrote: »
    I use Ekko on almost every one of my raids. I’m saddened to hear that he’s useless. I’ll start bringing Kreel instead. I know he’s brand new, but he sucks so bad that I figure he is due to get a buff.

    Okay, okay, Ekko isn't totally useless. I just think there's far better options. What team actually benefits from that 2 extra energy? It isn't even practical on Defense. You're better off bringing Ferno and Sol on the same team. She'll heal twice as quickly from Ferno's Updraft passive.

    never underestimate the extreme power of adding energy
  • But if we nerf Shade, the people who spent money getting him jacked will cry! We tried to give them the “Tenacious Assault” pacifier when Masuta got nerfed but they spit it right out.
    Current Level: 70
    Proud Member of the Potato Family
    "We should have more tags."
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  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    But if we nerf Shade, the people who spent money getting him jacked will cry! We tried to give them the “Tenacious Assault” pacifier when Masuta got nerfed but they spit it right out.

    The problem is one DB themselves have created. While it’s both profitable and in the interest of balance to make an OP hero, have them dominate PvP for a while, and then nerf them, it creates a bitter taste in people’s mouthes.

    Having a hero be balanced from the very start may not be as profitable, but at least it won’t create unrest since the hero isn’t going to be nerfed. With Shade and MK, they were made OP (heck, MK even got buffed) and it forced DB to have to nerf them.

    In a way, though, it’s the player base’s fault as well. We get these OP heroes and enjoy using them and spend money on them. This makes us blind to the issues the hero has, because we don’t want them to be nerfed. We want to keep our own heroes powerful while wanting the enemy heroes to get nerfed - even if they’re the same hero. This creates a divide in the community that makes it hard for the devs to determine who they should listen to.

    With MK’s case, it was mainly lower leveled players complaining - and quite fairly so, MK was a monster to lowered leveled players. Since there were less people who could deal with MK than those who couldn’t, the devs took the overwhelming uproar to nerf MK to heart and went with that decision. Perhaps there were too many complaining, though, since as we all know, MK got nerfed way too hard. What’s funny to me is that they even gave us a chance before they nerfed him with Kobal’s rework. Sadly, not enough new players caught on, and kept pushing for an MK nerf.

    Now all that said, everything is still up to the devs when the day’s over. I’m glad we’re starting newer, better summits, and the Q&A, because hopefully it will give the devs more of a balanced view on which heroes need nerfs and which ones need buffs. The Summit is mostly top-leveled players, but they can balance that with the lowered leveled players’ complaints and suggestions from the forums to come to a fair decision.

    And for starters, I think I speak for all levels of players when I say Shade and Solaris are too overpowered. I don’t care if Solaris is a Legendary. IGOROK is a Legendary. Aria is a Legendary. Solaris is practically a Legendary among Legendaries. Anyone who doesn’t have a strong Shade and Solaris hates them. Those of us who do, but are wise enough to look past our own bias, hate them. I get there’s tons of bugs to work out every week, but at least tell us if you’re putting any amount of effort towards balancing these heroes or not.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    To sum it all up, DB dug their own tiny grave (not saying the game is dead) by means of Power Creep. It’s incredibly hard to avoid, so I don’t blame them. But they could at least appear to be making efforts to atone for it. Buffing older heroes, nerfing new ones, etc...
  • @JackHallow666

    I love Solaris and Shade. They are both some of the best designed heroes this game has.

    Shade of course needs a nerf, but that doesn't stop his second and especially third ability from being incredibly unique. Solaris I don't think needs any adjustment currently as she's easily countered given her AI. The best part - You don't even need Solaris to counter her! The excellent undead revamp gave us ample tools to defeat any solaris defense.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    @JackHallow666

    I love Solaris and Shade. They are both some of the best designed heroes this game has.

    Shade of course needs a nerf, but that doesn't stop his second and especially third ability from being incredibly unique. Solaris I don't think needs any adjustment currently as she's easily countered given her AI. The best part - You don't even need Solaris to counter her! The excellent undead revamp gave us ample tools to defeat any solaris defense.

    Right... as in one of the two, maybe three ways to actually beat Solaris teams. And the only reliable one.

    Look, all I’m saying is that no one hero should dominate PvP this much. With Solaris getting a nerf and them finally reworking older heroes, PvP could actually be fun again.

    Not saying every single hero should be equally prevelant in PvP or equally strong, but Shade and Solaris are just too strong. Nothing even comes close to them, aside from maybe Hopper or Grog. But both rely on either Shade or Solaris respectively to even be good.
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