+1 Energy Runes

YykkilYykkil Member
edited April 12 in General Discussion
So these runes are clearly exceedingly rare and can provide a monumental advantage offensively by allowing some abilities to be used a round earlier. Assuming these energy runes stack with each other, it seems unlikely DB will ever make two of the same element rune available lest an attacker gets +2 energy. If this is the case, what is the stance towards players who do not have these energy runes, and how would one be able to obtain them?

I don't agree with the 'you snooze you lose so you'll never get it' argument because the advantage you can get is too great to just brush off (namely Shade Spirit linking t1). I missed the dark community energy rune because I was on a hiatus when it was released, which is fine, but seemingly never being able to get that rune due to aforementioned logic puts a bad taste in my mouth.

To be clear, I'm not saying I deserve a rune I missed for not being on at the time. All unique runes should be unique to the people who are able to obtain them. But something like Burning Skin or +10% hp every round is incomparable to +1 energy, which is such a huge advantage that never being able to get it puts someone who does have it far ahead of someone who doesn't, regardless of setup. I'd like to see at least an opportunity for those who missed out to be able to recoup their losses, even if that chance is just once a year.

9807918
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Comments

  • kpung07kpung07 Member
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.
    6446728
  • YykkilYykkil Member
    Right I completely forgot heroes could use multiple rune types, I was tunnel visioned on Shade. My point remains that this is a significant advantage with no controllable or expected method of obtaining these runes. Unless DB reckons stacking energy isn't a big deal and are planning to release these runes irregularly.
    9807918
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited April 12
    Yykkil wrote: »
    I'd like to see at least an opportunity for those who missed out to be able to recoup their losses, even if that chance is just once a year.

    What if that once a year window of opportunity rolls around when you're taking another break? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just think that your solution isn't a good one; it seems to accept the current model, which has put you at a disadvantage in the first place.

    I'd prefer a new rune type that gave more interesting bonuses, but had none of the standard attack/defence/HP/etc. stats on them. A white rune slot or something. +Energy on existing runes could be changed to a different stat, and the only way to get +energy would be to get a white rune with +energy on it. There'd be an opportunity cost because you'd be giving up something else cool, like an amplifier to abilities' effects (at the cost of a prolonged cooldown), or being able to target allies with a character's basic move and perform a little first aid, instead of attacking an enemy. You'd get white runes solely through tickets at events, including white runes that have been part of previous events, so players can catch up.

    What we'll actually get is a cap on the +energy runes give, so you'll get +1 energy no matter how many +energy runes you have. Then the devs can keep making +energy runes without worrying about any consequences.
  • L0rdL33tL0rdL33t Member
    edited April 12
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use immolating flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    Post edited by L0rdL33t on
  • L0rdL33t wrote: »
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use engulfing flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    +energy runes on defense doesn't really matter much since defenders always start with all abilities.

    Also, I believe there are currently 3 +energy runes (red, green, purple)
  • shiggity80 wrote: »
    L0rdL33t wrote: »
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use engulfing flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    +energy runes on defense doesn't really matter much since defenders always start with all abilities.

    Also, I believe there are currently 3 +energy runes (red, green, purple)

    Wait does it mean the energy is only bonus starting energy or energy every turn?
  • shiggity80shiggity80 Member
    edited April 12
    L0rdL33t wrote: »
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    L0rdL33t wrote: »
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use engulfing flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    +energy runes on defense doesn't really matter much since defenders always start with all abilities.

    Also, I believe there are currently 3 +energy runes (red, green, purple)

    Wait does it mean the energy is only bonus starting energy or energy every turn?

    Honestly, I'm not sure. I always assumed it was just +1 at the start of a PvP match.
  • L0rdL33t wrote: »
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use immolating flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    Immolating Fire has absolutely nothing to do with energy; it charges off of a separate mechanic called "Fury". Fury increases based on how much damage is done to Solaris' allies. The formula is such that if 2 allies are killed, she's fully charged and revive everyone (or do that stupid fire attack on everyone that is absolutely worthless).

    There is no timer/energy requirement. I can use Immolating Fire in back to back turns, since Solaris starts with 3 Phoenix Charges (she resurrects at the end of a turn if she has 3); 2 allies die, solaris sacrifices herself, start of the next turn she resurrects herself and now all 4 of your team members are alive, 2 die AGAIN, and Sol will be fully charged with Fury AGAIN, and can resurrect the 2 dead guys a 2nd time.

    Now, if that happens, Solaris is down for 3 turns . . . unless you have Leonidus, who resurrects 2 beasts upon his death, which then brings back Sol earlier....and Sol has the effect of resurrecting all beasts whenever she revives . . . .so yeah, endless resurrections are fun! I made a GT, GG, Leo Sol team before Agnon came out and it was hilarious; you just outlasted everyone.
  • L0rdL33t wrote: »
    shiggity80 wrote: »
    L0rdL33t wrote: »
    kpung07 wrote: »
    My Solaris has 2 +energy runes (red and green) so they do stack.

    I didn’t even know such runes existed and now this is alarming to me! How do you even prepare against a Solaris who will re-use engulfing flames 2 turns earlier than expected!?

    +energy runes on defense doesn't really matter much since defenders always start with all abilities.

    Also, I believe there are currently 3 +energy runes (red, green, purple)

    Wait does it mean the energy is only bonus starting energy or energy every turn?

    Only at the start of the match. For instance, I put the Red and Green +1 energies (Festive Runes, gained from using a Gold Key to open certain Winterfest doors) on Koros, which allows me to use his 2nd ability in turn 2 (and his 3rd in Turn 3) - works wonders vs. Solaris and Grog, since both have the "Magical" characteristic that Koros does 2x damage to.

    However, once Koros uses those abilities, he has to wait the normal cooldown before using them again.

    That's different from a Indigo or Ferno, which can give allies extra energy each turn (Indigo gives +1 energy to the whole team for each crit, and Ferno gives +1 energy to all flying heroes at the end of each round).

    In short, the Energy Runes really just give you an early advantage; access to the 2nd and 3rd abilities of heroes on turns 1-3 instead of 3+. You can have Agnon use Terrorstorm turn 1, Shade link turn 1 (with Kobal), do the Koros stuff I mentioned, access Dive Bomb/Choking Smoke for Ferno way earlier (he can equip all 3 energy runes), etc. It's fun stuff!

    Also, I do disagree with the OP. We had to work for those runes during certain events. If you weren't around, you shouldn't be able to get them just because.
  • YykkilYykkil Member
    edited April 12
    If the rune required you to do work such as being at the top of a certain leaderboard, fair enough. It means only a select few will get these runes. In the case of the dark community rune, the access was much wider. I'd love to have contributed to the community rune, but I wasn't there so I didn't get the chance to participate. Fair enough.

    My issue comes with the fact that releasing more +energy runes means people will start having up to +5 energy on heroes, and as that seems unlikely to be allowed to happen, it suggests a lack of energy runes in the future, meaning those who do not have them will not have the chance to get these runes. If these energy runes weren't really that big of a deal you wouldn't see them on every offense roster for players who do have them. It's a significant advantage not otherwise obtainable in any way, not even random crafting.

    Advantages on db have usually been time-exclusive - meaning any advantage you get is usually in the form of being able to use it earlier than others, such as heroes being released in an exclusive way, then being available more widely by coming into the Heroic Portal, etc. Eg. with Agnon, players who 6* him earlier by paying during his 28-door event were rewarded by having a stronger Agnon compared to those who didn't. This isn't the case with these runes, you will either have them or you don't.
    9807918
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited April 12
    Yykkil wrote: »
    My issue comes with the fact that releasing more +energy runes means people will start having up to +5 energy on heroes, and as that seems unlikely to be allowed to happen, it suggests a lack of energy runes in the future...
    Not necessarily. They could make it so that each hero would only get +1 energy (or whatever value you prefer) from runes at the start of a match, regardless of how many +energy runes are equipped. That way they can release more energy runes without worrying about Ferno belting out Choking Smoke on turn 1 or something daft.

  • YykkilYykkil Member
    Stinky wrote: »
    Yykkil wrote: »
    My issue comes with the fact that releasing more +energy runes means people will start having up to +5 energy on heroes, and as that seems unlikely to be allowed to happen, it suggests a lack of energy runes in the future...
    Not necessarily. They could make it so that each hero would only get +1 energy (or whatever value you prefer) from runes at the start of a match, regardless of how many +energy runes are equipped. That way they can release more energy runes without worrying about Ferno belting out Choking Smoke on turn 1 or something daft.

    Whilst I'd welcome that idea, it currently isn't that case, and I cannot assume it will be.
    9807918
  • danacdanac Member
    Yykkil wrote: »
    So these runes are clearly exceedingly rare and can provide a monumental advantage offensively by allowing some abilities to be used a round earlier. Assuming these energy runes stack with each other, it seems unlikely DB will ever make two of the same element rune available lest an attacker gets +2 energy. If this is the case, what is the stance towards players who do not have these energy runes, and how would one be able to obtain them?

    meet me in the trade portal.
  • danac wrote: »
    meet me in the trade portal.

    For everyone who doesn't know how to access the trade portal-I'll tell you;
    First accumulate 10,000 hammers
    Then enter My Dungeon, and tap all characters until they drop to the ground
    Swipe right 3 times, and you will enter the Trade portal. Your first transaction will give you 'knows what hammers do.'.


    Have fun with the sol and marrow tokens!
    Level 71 in the almighty Potato Army!
    Happy to share my knowledge with anyone that listens
  • Can you please address this issue @Joel or @xtmn8r? The lack of response from anyone is very telling. You guys are always releasing runes for f2p players in order to provide balance. You also continue to rework heroes in order to provide balance however you just end up making people with these energy runes more powerful (Emily). Why can’t you come up with a solution for this? Every morning I wake up and watch shade link or emily use cleanse on first turn in my dungeon. All I’m asking is that you come up with a fair solution for all. Maybe releasing these runes but capping the energy increase they provide is the answer. But the answer can’t be: we released these and can’t take them back but are never going to offer them again...

    Just my thoughts,
    One-Eyed
  • Have them be a boss 100 reward or something.

    Actually, scratch that...we would miss out on the 14th week of the dr/dr/electric skin rune or the def/def/att/reduce monster purple rune.
  • bartokbartok Member
    To put this in plain terms, if you make an unfair playing field, you will loose players who pay to play. I have these runes and without them would have given up on PVP. I can’t imagine what it would be like without them. I am sure it is unintended but you have created a two teir dB society of haves and have nots.
  • YykkilYykkil Member
    When Runes start providing functional changes rather than simple stat boosts or status effects the playing field is skewed in a way that, at least to me, is unhealthy. No matter how many Superior or Elite runes I manage to accrue, chances are it won't invalidate the need for those Energy Runes.

    And even if an energy rune is released in the future, I will have 1 of those runes, which will enable me to use a specific x comp, but someone with 3 said runes will now have 4 energy runes, allowing them to use y comp that requires 4 said runes, when really, both of us should have access to the same attack patterns.
    9807918
  • I do think they should have limit time things, as they do with titles and maybe the Leonidas skin. It's healthy to keep people coming back to get rare things. However, it should not apply to game changing things like rune. Visuals are where the line should stop. Also I think it's fine having energy runes stacking because you're losing out on other good 4th stats like, 10% in PVP, Electric Skin, Freezing skin, Etc.
  • 1EyedWillie1EyedWillie Member
    edited May 22
    Everyday that goes by without me having these makes me want to PvP less and less. Almost every creative PvP solution to these Barb teams starts with “well if you put an energy rune on X character then...” Please stop stifling my PvP creativity! The best part is you release an antidote for these defenses in Emily but make it her second skill with 3 energy. It’s very unlikely your team survives long enough to use it without an energy rune(s). I have resorted to just overpowering everyone with my shade/barb team nowadays. I don’t even change teams because what’s the point? You have successfully made me into a volume PvPer. And maybe that’s great for you because it just means I spend more gems to get to the leaderboards. The only good thing is I don’t have to waste any time now deciding which team to use.
  • Most people can only use one team. It's not like we can take runes off without paying around or over a million gold per character.
  • Not true. All you need to do is keep moving them to the next latest and greatest character / rework. Rinse wash and repeat for those that have them.
  • I meant that you can't really have two good runed teams at the same time. Not that you can't swap when a new meta happens.
  • The point still remains that people with energy runes are playing an entirely different game
  • echonapechonap Member
    I suggest adding them to the item shop for x gems, but only available for people who do not have them in inventory yet?

    x = 4500 gems, the typical price for a superior?
    x = 5000 gems, the price for a premium superior?
    x = 7500 gems, the typical price for an elite?
    x = 10000 gems, because this is a premium rune?
  • RocksorRocksor Member
    echonap wrote: »
    I suggest adding them to the item shop for x gems, but only available for people who do not have them in inventory yet?

    x = 4500 gems, the typical price for a superior?
    x = 5000 gems, the price for a premium superior?
    x = 7500 gems, the typical price for an elite?
    x = 10000 gems, because this is a premium rune?

    They could make the +1 energy runes of the past (red, green, purple) available for real money in the shop or special offer to those who do not have it, with a limit 1 purchase of each color. I don't think they should make the past +1 energy runes available with in game currency like gems or honor points unless they make it available to everyone.
  • tthebonetthebone Member
    I know this is probably not a popular opinion, but I say that if you weren't there to get the rune you shouldn't feel entitled to be able to get it somehow. You snooze, you lose
  • tthebone wrote: »
    I know this is probably not a popular opinion, but I say that if you weren't there to get the rune you shouldn't feel entitled to be able to get it somehow. You snooze, you lose
    Yeah, and besides if they re-release it then we will have the turn one turn everyone to plants with drak ferno and agnon meta...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • tthebone wrote: »
    I know this is probably not a popular opinion, but I say that if you weren't there to get the rune you shouldn't feel entitled to be able to get it somehow. You snooze, you lose

    I don't think that this snooze you loose should apply to game changing items. Only collectibles because so many people joined after the release date, what if there were a good hero given to day one people and no one could use him.
  • tthebone wrote: »
    I know this is probably not a popular opinion, but I say that if you weren't there to get the rune you shouldn't feel entitled to be able to get it somehow. You snooze, you lose

    I don't think that this snooze you loose should apply to game changing items. Only collectibles because so many people joined after the release date, what if there were a good hero given to day one people and no one could use him.

    Do you really think people using barbs need a power boost of that magnitude, if they release fiesta runes again we will just have a meta filled with tons of people using barbs with a turn one with nature.... Utter Chaos!
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
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