Can someone explain difference between defence and damage reduction

As the question, I would like to know how defence and dmg reduction actually works, and how does it affect in battle, which one is applied first.
Example 1
a hero has a base health of 10k and defence of 2k, attacker is doing a 4 k dmg to hero, how much does defence reduce the actual dmg to, considering dmg penetration of attacker is 0 and hero receiving dmg has 0 dmg reducion
Example 2
Same but instead hero receiving dmg has 20% dmg reduction but 0 defence
Example 3.
Now hero receiving dmg has 2k defence and 20% dmg reduction, attacker is same
Example 4
Hero receiving dmg has 2k defence and 20% dr, but now attacker has 20% dmg penetration.
And how defence and dmg reduction works against melee dmg and skill dmg ( fire, freeze, vines etc),
Thank you

Comments

  • edited July 23
    I'm not sure the exact numbers for defense but damage reduction is exactly what it sounds like. In example 2, the 4k attack would be reduced to 80% and only deal 3200 and the 10k hero would be left with 6800 HP.

    The only thing to keep in mind is that damage reduction does not stack well. If you have two 10% DR runes, you will end up with 11% DR...

    The best DR comes from abilities and passives and you should only try for a 10% DR passive. Defense can stack additively.
  • @MrTheWaffleKing - Sorry for being dense but I am trying to understand what you have said about damage reduction.

    First, you said:
    The only thing to keep in mind is that damage reduction does not stack well. If you have two 10% DR runes, you will end up with 11% DR...

    When I look at my runes, they seem have three types of DR statements:
    1. "Damage Reduction +10.74%"
    2. "+10% Damage Reduction in PvP"
    3. "Reduce Damage from Caster: 10%"
    The first two statements seem to suggest that DR will stack additively while Statement 3 is ambiguous regarding how DR might stack. Are you saying that none of these DR stats would stack additively or just certain types (e.g., Statement 3 types)?

    Next, you said:
    The best DR comes from abilities and passives and you should only try for a 10% DR passive.
    What exactly counts as an ability or a passive and what else is there (i.e., if abilities and passives are good ways to get DR, what are the bad ways)?

    Finally, do the same type of limitations that you refer to for DR also apply to damage penetration?

    Thank you very much, in advance, for the clarification :)
  • Number 1 and 2 should give you a little over 11% DR in PVP and I think the caster DR would be separate and added on(don't quote me on that last bit).

    By ability or passive, I'm referring to stuff like Drakk's rage or Goretusks momentum, each giving 75% DR when at peak levels. These are additive to existing rune DR which is multiplicative only with itself. (All runes with DR are multiplicative but not to other passives.) So having 5 rage on Drakk and a 10% DR in PVP would give you 85% DR. However, the damage reduction can only ever hit 90%, no matter how much you negate, you are still taking 10% of the damage.

    As damage pen is slightly new, I have no idea if it's additive or multiplicative.

    Hope this helps. :)
  • MonkeyHunterMonkeyHunter Member
    edited July 24
    DR runes stack additively up to 50% except for the 4th stat which stack multiplicatively and caps at 80%. For example:
    tensy4svg5s1.jpeg
    If you max out DR (50%) and have 10% dr as 4th stat, it would add 5% dr for 55% total.

    Quick question: if I have 0% damage reduction but 10% dr as 4th stat would that result in 0% dr?

    Edit: answer: would result in 10% dr.
    Post edited by MonkeyHunter on
  • MonkeyHunterMonkeyHunter Member
    edited July 24
    Also, I have 10% dr on shade plus two 10% dr 4th stats. Does this mean my shade only gets 12% dr?!

    Edit: nope, nope, I’m wrong. Would be 19%. Why is 5th grade math so hard... :wink:
    Post edited by MonkeyHunter on
  • Oh! If that really is the case, I better get rid of those runes! I always thought the first 10% was additive then every other stacked off that.
  • echonapechonap Member
    Defense is part of the core damage calculation and the exact formula is hidden from us. In most cases, defense is the better stat.

    DR is applied at the end of the damage calculation. It is a raw percentage decrease in the damage received. The base stat (that shows up in the hero card) is additive and caps at 50%. All other sources (like 4th stats on runes, passives like Armored or Flying) are multiplied. That does not mean two 10% DR sources calculate to 11%. It means 90% of the damage gets through the first 10% DR, and gets further reduced to 81% by the second 10% DR, so you wind up with 19%. It's 5th grade math...
  • echonap wrote: »
    Defense is part of the core damage calculation and the exact formula is hidden from us. In most cases, defense is the better stat.

    DR is applied at the end of the damage calculation. It is a raw percentage decrease in the damage received. The base stat (that shows up in the hero card) is additive and caps at 50%. All other sources (like 4th stats on runes, passives like Armored or Flying) are multiplied. That does not mean two 10% DR sources calculate to 11%. It means 90% of the damage gets through the first 10% DR, and gets further reduced to 81% by the second 10% DR, so you wind up with 19%. It's 5th grade math...

    Ohh I thought by multiplicative the DR values were multiplied by eachother... nvm then. (0.1*10=1, 10+1=11%)
  • Fredios2Fredios2 Member
    echonap wrote: »
    Defense is part of the core damage calculation and the exact formula is hidden from us. In most cases, defense is the better stat.

    DR is applied at the end of the damage calculation. It is a raw percentage decrease in the damage received. The base stat (that shows up in the hero card) is additive and caps at 50%. All other sources (like 4th stats on runes, passives like Armored or Flying) are multiplied. That does not mean two 10% DR sources calculate to 11%. It means 90% of the damage gets through the first 10% DR, and gets further reduced to 81% by the second 10% DR, so you wind up with 19%. It's 5th grade math...

    Ohh I thought by multiplicative the DR values were multiplied by eachother... nvm then. (0.1*10=1, 10+1=11%)

    Thanks on the explanation on damage reduction
    One more question, if u had to make a tanky hero, would u go for 5 defence runes or mix of dr and defence runes, if life runes were not considered
  • Mix. I would use a guardian rune (which gives a defense buff at the start of a game) and one "10% DR in PVP" and then mix the rest of the stats. Skin runes like freeze or shock are also good on tanks.
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