May 15th Update: Skill Rework

24

Comments

  • We need the limits each skill can be pushed. There is too much to test otherwise and will take weeks upon weeks.

    Alexandros' Damage Reflection

    Aria's Attack / Defense passive stat boost.

    Kobal's Disease impact.

    Furnace's DR bonus.

    Shade's DR Bonus

    Astrid's Primary attack debuff

    Pignius's Crit Bonus.

    I think you will find in most cases, the opportunity cost of skill for those heroes is not worth paying. Exception on that list are Pignius who is an MK stat stick, and Kobal who is a sacrificial lamb.

    I also don't think any of these skills have a "hard cap". It's more a soft cap created by the maximum amount of skill that can be achieved. (I do not know this for a fact).
  • Ududu2Ududu2 Member
    edited May 15
    Awesome changes, and thanks for the free rune unequip! Looks like I'm going to be busy the next few days rearranging runes
  • JaxBoomstickJaxBoomstick Member
    edited May 15
    So ... stacking Aria and Pignius with 100% skill doesn't worry you about being hit by an MK with +60% attack power and +500% Crit Damage?

    Or Stacking Dagrund and Pignius with 100% Skill and being hit by Uber Kai for +100% attack power and +500% crit Damage?

    Or Stacking all Skill on Alexandros and having the whole team with Damage Reflection at 220% damage returned to the attacker?

    I think we need to know the limits of these skills.
  • LotharLothar Member
    So ... stacking Aria and Pignius with 100% skill doesn't worry you about being hit by an MK with +60% attack power and +500% Crit Damage?

    Or Stacking Dagrund and Pignius with 100% Skill and being hit by Uber Kai for +100% attack power and +500% crit Damage?

    Or Stacking all Skill on Alexandros and having the whole team with Damage Reflection at 220% damage returned to the attacker?

    I think we need to know the limits of these skills.

    I just did a quick test because I had no runes on Pignius. His crit multiplier went from 253% to 254% when I added a rune with 500 SKL. So I think given that it's unlikely you'd get much additional traction loading him for bear with nothing but skill runes. Also, dev did mention that passives are unaffected by skill, with the big differences being applied to active buffs/debuffs. So probably no cause for panic here.

    Incidentally I love the idea of a more effective Kai with skill runes. I use him on attack in PVP since so many defenders use AOE characters, so I don't really care if he dies quickly just as long as he has enough time to get that drenching off first. I'll be rearranging runes for sure!
  • setlistsetlist Member
    Interesting times!

    @DB_Dillon , mind if we get some clarification on this statement?: "Shock now applies the damage from the attacker instead of from who it was applied to."

    Does that mean a shock's damage is determined by:

    1) the original shock debuff applier? And if so, is the damage determined by the applier's attack rating or skill?
    or
    2) the hero that hits the already shock debuffed target? And if so, is the damage determined by that attacker's attack rating or skill?

    Thanks!
  • DB_DillonDB_Dillon Member, Moderator, Boss Fight
    tankytyler wrote: »
    Does the change affect healing on epics like nub nub, yas, or Yorick.?

    yep!
    setlist wrote: »
    Interesting times!

    @DB_Dillon , mind if we get some clarification on this statement?: "Shock now applies the damage from the attacker instead of from who it was applied to."

    Does that mean a shock's damage is determined by:

    1) the original shock debuff applier? And if so, is the damage determined by the applier's attack rating or skill?
    or
    2) the hero that hits the already shock debuffed target? And if so, is the damage determined by that attacker's attack rating or skill?

    Thanks!

    #1 with Skill, and no problem!
  • Will the effect of skill be explicit? For instance if Willow's evasive shot gives 57% dodge, how would 2000 skill points change that?

    With skill coming into play, it would be nice to see buff/debuff details when clicking on a hero. I foresee rocky rocking skillful skill runes.
  • Does skill affect the chance of a passive activating? (Like Stone Fist's Stone Cold, Kozar's Bone rattler, etc.)
    Current Level: 70
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  • Did some testing. Figured out some basics. Looks like you can increase most passive stat bonus' by around 20%. Aria's attack bonus 15% increased to 19.5%. Pignius Crit bonus from 253% to 265%. etc.

    Now on to the Skill vs. Skill debuff changes. The first major one of interest will be Disease. However, there is a flaw in the way disease is currently being applied in game. Testing has shown disease reduces the attackers' attack power by 50% of their base attack power. The flaw here is even at 1 billion skill, reducing MK's 5200 attack power (2200 base +3000 runes) by 100% base attack power (2200), he still has 3000 attack power and will not hit for that much of a difference from 4300 attack power.

    If diseased was applied properly off total attack power and not base attack power, this would be very beneficial.
  • coneyKconeyK Member
    Grog-Gnog's Frost Breath is no longer AoE. When did that happen?

    It's a change I approve of, I just missed the memo ;)
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    coneyK wrote: »
    Grog-Gnog's Frost Breath is no longer AoE. When did that happen?

    It's a change I approve of, I just missed the memo ;)

    Isn't it an aoe with his snowday buff and not when the buff isn't there? Haven't used grog in a while.
  • Vince00Vince00 Member
    edited May 16
    This just made my mostly skill rune squinch torch everything in site on his aoe attack. Glad I waited on making superior runes until the skill and resist changes come through. I put some extra skill runes on Hansuke and he's stepped in almost every time. This is a big change to the game, and I like it a lot.
  • RexobRexob Member
    Has anyone tested their skin Runes yet...?
    IGN: N00BST4R
  • "Skill is used to calculate how much of an affect it will have."

    Does this bother anyone else?
  • coneyK wrote: »
    Grog-Gnog's Frost Breath is no longer AoE. When did that happen?

    It's a change I approve of, I just missed the memo ;)

    If you have snow day active and then use frost breath it will be AoE. If no snow day then it will be single target.
  • MattCauthronMattCauthron Member
    edited May 16
    Rexob wrote: »
    Has anyone tested their skin Runes yet...?

    Skin runes were way above the power curve. A single 4th stat should not be responsible for dealing the majority of damage during a pvp match. This was often the case however with burn, posion, and most noticeably shock. This brings skin runes down to what a 4th stat should be. A very useful additional perk, that will not (And should not) single handedly win you games.

    Perhaps they could increase the proc rate of skins runes now that their damage has been significantly decreased. You can of course use some skill to increase this damage. I would imagine skill works the same as most other stats, and that the first increase grants the largest % gain. Ie: a single focus rune may show a material increase in skin damage for an acceptable opportunity cost.
  • wzangwzang Member
    Welcome @DB_Dillon! Thank you for your help

    @Joel for quality of life, please consider extending the unequip until the next event with this being introduced.
    9gJSaHl.gif
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited May 16
    Glad I kept my att/att/skill purple runes on kobal as now you can't make those anymore. I am a huge opponent against "legacy" items (in this case runes) though for best in slot. It just arbitrarily punishes people for not obtaining an item when it was available.
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    itirnitii wrote: »
    Glad I kept my att/att/skill purple runes on kobal as now you can't make those anymore. I am a huge opponent against "legacy" items (in this case runes) though for best in slot. It just arbitrarily punishes people for not obtaining an item when it was available.

    It's the same for precision runes with crit, attack, and damage %. Those are like gold now.
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited May 16
    Is Tenacity still at 27.1% even though it is listed as excluded from the skill change?

    EDIT: Oops, looks like Jax over-edited too quickly.
  • Mati01Mati01 Member
    So buff/debuff builds now a legit thing in DB? that's so coool
  • nunyanunya Member
    Thank you for all your work @JaxBoomstick
    nunya
  • DB_Dillon wrote: »
    Skill affects debuffs.
    When you apply a debuff to an opponent, it compares the two Skills. If the enemies is higher, they have a normal chance to resist the buff. If the caster's is higher, they not only have a better chance of applying the buff, but can apply added bonuses out of it!
    (ex. Kobal with a bajillion Skill applies disease to enemy Zurk. Diseased Zurk, with his 2 Skill, not only loses his ability to crit entirely, he only attacks for a measly 1 damage.)

    Picking apart this example is very frustrating:
    • To double a 15% skill it requires 20,000 skill
    • To double a 25% skill it requires 20,000 skill
    • To double the 50% attack power reduction of disease it takes 20,000 skill.
    • Kobal is purple and can only have 2 Focus runes so really his cap is around 2000 extra skill. So we're no where in the realm of reality
    • Disease only reduces a heroes' attack power by his base attack power. Meaning for the above example to ever work "Diseased Zurk" can't have a single rune with ANY attack power. Once again, not realistic.
    • A magical added bonus can come from a large difference in attacking / defending hero's skill? Can we get the math on that one if it really exists? Otherwise its sort of silly. For example (((Attacker Skill / Defender Skill) - 1) x 100) = % increase to debuff effectiveness. That actually makes sense. But absolutely requires confirmation.
  • WolfreichWolfreich Member
    Good assessment JaxBoomstick. This was my concern, a lot of changes being made with hypothetical information but no actual concern for the practicality of how the system works at the moment. Oh well, Yasmin heals more, Yay.
  • So...this is useful for Ember's atk increasing healing ability but not looking like it's useful for really too many other heroes.
  • bvs72bvs72 Member

    Is burning still useful. At the end of round one, My 5 star furnace and Koros are left facing a 1 star diseased and burning Aria. The witch survived after being set on fire twice more. I guess the moral is that one star heroes are sufficient if the opponent doesn't have enough skill. To think, I wasted all that Aether bringing my Aria to 5 stars.

    lz8mxx22hnbc.png
  • bvs72 wrote: »
    Is burning still useful. At the end of round one, My 5 star furnace and Koros are left facing a 1 star diseased and burning Aria. The witch survived after being set on fire twice more. I guess the moral is that one star heroes are sufficient if the opponent doesn't have enough skill. To think, I wasted all that Aether bringing my Aria to 5 stars.

    lz8mxx22hnbc.png

    This is the biggest thing I'm facing with this update. My furnace is definitely doing significantly less in burn damage.
  • heelerheeler Member
    edited May 16
    I am curious if people are seeing Ember's ATK boost on Fire Mend being improved with more SKL. I did some testing, and it was inconclusive. If anyone does more (or better) testing, I would love to know. I find it hard to test, and am getting mixed results - sometimes a tiny boost, like 1% when more than doubling her SKL, sometimes top to 11%. Sometimes no difference at all.

    The damage boost from Lupina's Fear is definitely improved with more SKL.
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    I would have probably also won if MK didn't crit twice on Koros after being diseased. I should have been more concerned about a 1 star Aria and used Valkin instead of Furnace.
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