Hunnnh??!!

245

Comments

  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    Joel wrote: »
    As part of today's update, we've made some changes to matchmaking to the Boss 100. We will be keeping an eye on things and making additional changes as necessary.

    @Joel

    Will these changes be affecting those of us who are level 70 and in the top 100, or just players 65-69 who were in the top 100 and facing level 62-64 opponents?
  • echonapechonap Member
    I never understood why RP was used to determine if someone was the E/M/H pvp option. We all know hero RP is not a true measure of anything pvp related. Random heroes are assigned random numbers that do not truly reflect how good that hero is in pvp. The fact that Icebloom is the highest rp hero proves my point. How long has it been since she was relevant in pvp? She debuted in Christmas 2016, so roughly 15 months?

    Your pvp options should be based on where you are ranked, and those around you.

    For example (just throwing numbers out there):
    E = anyone 1000 trophies lower than you to 10000 trophies below you
    M = anyone within 1000 trophies of you
    H = anyone 1000 below to 10000 trophies above you

    Introducing levels back in to pvp matchmaking brings us back to the old formula where people purposely delayed their progress to face easier pvp competition and earn disproportional rewards.
  • echonap wrote: »
    I never understood why RP was used to determine if someone was the E/M/H pvp option. We all know hero RP is not a true measure of anything pvp related. Random heroes are assigned random numbers that do not truly reflect how good that hero is in pvp. The fact that Icebloom is the highest rp hero proves my point. How long has it been since she was relevant in pvp? She debuted in Christmas 2016, so roughly 15 months?

    Your pvp options should be based on where you are ranked, and those around you.

    For example (just throwing numbers out there):
    E = anyone 1000 trophies lower than you to 10000 trophies below you
    M = anyone within 1000 trophies of you
    H = anyone 1000 below to 10000 trophies above you

    Introducing levels back in to pvp matchmaking brings us back to the old formula where people purposely delayed their progress to face easier pvp competition and earn disproportional rewards.

    That would land top 100 right back into fighting the same 20 people over and over again for an entire week. That was when pvp was the most miserable it has ever been in this game.

    No. Thank. You.

    Calculated Roster Power is a good thumb measurement for your general strength. I'm not sure which heroes are used, but one would hope they are pvp meta heroes. Jax's research showed an alarming number of PvE heroes potentially being used. This of course makes zero sense, but I still think it's a significantly better system than any we've had previously.
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    I seem to come across a lot of top players as medium options and a lot of no-name players as hard options.

    Not sure if some top players have found a way to take their ratings or not, but what do they really gain? I am fine with being presented as the hard option to people.
  • nunyanunya Member
    I feel that I should always be the easy option. :)
    nunya
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    nunya wrote: »
    I feel that I should always be the easy option. :)

    Not when your shade snipes my shade instead of going for ANYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM. Made me look pretty foolish... :wink:
  • MattCauthronMattCauthron Member
    edited May 15
    Zombie8u wrote: »
    I seem to come across a lot of top players as medium options and a lot of no-name players as hard options.

    Not sure if some top players have found a way to take their ratings or not, but what do they really gain? I am fine with being presented as the hard option to people.

    I think what you are seeing are top end players that deruned their heroes for easier matchups. This is causing them to show up as easier defenses. The other benefit of this is it essentially acts as a "bait" defense. It avoids losses from the top players and takes easy wins off of players who don't realize they are by no means fighting a "medium" defense.

    The main culprit of this is having useless PvE heroes being used in the CRP (Not confirmed). If Jax's research is true however, that would mean multiple useless heroes including undead and goblins who are completely unnecessary in PvE or PvP are being used. These heroes can easily be stripped or runes with minimal to zero impact on your everyday gameplay. Using these PvE heroes of course makes absolutely no sense from a logic stand point. I continue to hope Jax is incorrect in that analysis.

    If they would do the obvious solution (If they aren't already), and use PvP meta heroes for the CRP, suddenly stripping your heroes would be a relatively large handicap by narrowing your available PvP viable roster.
  • danacdanac Member
    nunya wrote: »
    I feel that I should always be the easy option. :)

    Are you saying you're easy?


    Or just want to be?
  • sagewithaflawsagewithaflaw Member
    edited May 16
    Huh, never realized people were actively deruning or purposely not advancing heroes to gain a strategic advantage and face easier teams in PvP. Makes sense I guess, but as a fairly casual sorta slow leveler, I just never bothered with that. I have plenty of resources, so have always kept even the scrub heroes a level or two below my player level. One thing though is I'm lazy and so haven't runed up many heroes - just my undead and the meta PvP heroes, so maybe I've unintentionally benefitted from that in PvP. I have been hitting Legend the past half dozen seasons with minimal effort. I realize I'm a scrub player though and so my experiences are limited and not particularly relevant to those playing at the top of the heap - just figured I'd throw in my thoughts. I'm able to mop up for the most part after the E / M / H matchmaking went back into play - have only had 2 losses in my last 350 offensive attacks spanning the last 3 seasons, and those were both due to Grog dodging a Torch silence. But I don't raid far right as a rule - I tend to take on the team wih the highest payout I feel I can beat, which is occasionally left or middle.
  • itirnitiiitirnitii Member
    edited May 16
    echonap wrote: »
    No. Thank. You.

    @MattCauthron

    We could just slightly revise it so Top 200 only fights each other, regardless of trophy counts, as a special category. I think that offers enough variance.
  • Joel wrote: »
    As part of today's update, we've made some changes to matchmaking to the Boss 100. We will be keeping an eye on things and making additional changes as necessary.

    Were the changes posted? If so, I can't find the thread.
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    MelofSteel wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    As part of today's update, we've made some changes to matchmaking to the Boss 100. We will be keeping an eye on things and making additional changes as necessary.

    Were the changes posted? If so, I can't find the thread.

    The changes are relatively subtle things in our matchmaking calculations, not stuff we'll be posting about in detail.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Aura0fsmilesAura0fsmiles Member
    edited May 16
    Took off enough runes to drop more than 30k roster power noticed a significant difference in matchmaking. Hoarding mats till I'm close to 999 of each before bothering to level up anymore epics.
    Not exactly participating regularly in PvP anymore but the hard matches in seeing now don't take more than 6-7 heroes runed up to fight them all. Useless runed heroes no more:)

  • Took off enough runes to drop more than 30k roster power noticed a significant difference in matchmaking. Hoarding mats till I'm close to 999 of each before bothering to level up anymore epics.
    Not exactly participating regularly in PvP anymore but the hard matches in seeing now don't take more than 6-7 heroes runed up to fight them all. Useless runed heroes no more:)

    I don't think the tweaks would occur until you are either in Legend I or Boss 100.
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    ckall056 wrote: »
    some days i cant even get out of warlord because every matchup is Kira/Rocky+reptiles, all with Legendary variations of champion runes. I am pretty good, but I have no chance...there almost certainly has to be a better way, I think everyone is just trying too hard to see it, when its really probably pretty simple. I wont fuel the fire though - lets just work together to figure this out.

    Can someone explain to me why Rocky is a big deal? To me, he's been the absolute worst hero on my roster and I never see him in PvP.
  • Zombie8uZombie8u Member
    xandrew29 wrote: »
    ckall056 wrote: »
    some days i cant even get out of warlord because every matchup is Kira/Rocky+reptiles, all with Legendary variations of champion runes. I am pretty good, but I have no chance...there almost certainly has to be a better way, I think everyone is just trying too hard to see it, when its really probably pretty simple. I wont fuel the fire though - lets just work together to figure this out.

    Can someone explain to me why Rocky is a big deal? To me, he's been the absolute worst hero on my roster and I never see him in PvP.

    Fully ascended he is a fast hero who can add dodge (haste to other green teammates) or silence someone on the other team, and he passively buffs green toon's crit. Not to mention all the plant growth stuff.

    I use rocky for probably about half of my raids, more if I am feeling lazy...
  • xandrew29 wrote: »
    ckall056 wrote: »
    some days i cant even get out of warlord because every matchup is Kira/Rocky+reptiles, all with Legendary variations of champion runes. I am pretty good, but I have no chance...there almost certainly has to be a better way, I think everyone is just trying too hard to see it, when its really probably pretty simple. I wont fuel the fire though - lets just work together to figure this out.

    Can someone explain to me why Rocky is a big deal? To me, he's been the absolute worst hero on my roster and I never see him in PvP.

    On top of that he often baits shade and can be made tanky enough to survive essentially any shade hit.
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    Zombie8u wrote: »
    xandrew29 wrote: »
    ckall056 wrote: »
    some days i cant even get out of warlord because every matchup is Kira/Rocky+reptiles, all with Legendary variations of champion runes. I am pretty good, but I have no chance...there almost certainly has to be a better way, I think everyone is just trying too hard to see it, when its really probably pretty simple. I wont fuel the fire though - lets just work together to figure this out.

    Can someone explain to me why Rocky is a big deal? To me, he's been the absolute worst hero on my roster and I never see him in PvP.

    Fully ascended he is a fast hero who can add dodge (haste to other green teammates) or silence someone on the other team, and he passively buffs green toon's crit. Not to mention all the plant growth stuff.

    I use rocky for probably about half of my raids, more if I am feeling lazy...

    Wait, he gains Fast when he's fully ascended? Ahh, that makes more sense. Right now he's a 2* waste of space on my roster (I'm only PL35 with mostly 2-3* heroes and only 2 FA (Nub and Stonefist).
  • danac wrote: »

    One last thing I'd like to re-mention from my original post ... that being the subject of bringing unleveled heroes to battle. If the Boss Leaderboard is restricted to level 65 and above, then I propose that there's a "hero check" at the door when entering a match. If the player has to be level 65, the so must ALL heroes brought to a match. i.e. No more level twenty-something Krexx's and Kobal's that die when someone sneezes. Again, don't hate the player ... hate the programming that allows this to happen. Cheers

    Disagree with this part. Building your roster for PVP requires strategy. Keeping Krexx low level is just a better variation of not putting defensive runes on Krexx. I don’t see any reason to force players to modify heroes in specific ways just to make them easier for their opponents.

    Well that's not a surprising stance given your guild affiliation with one of the players prominently using this to their advantage. However the majority of people that I've spoken with feel that this is an unfair advantage and most likely, something that wasn't anticipated in the programming which should be corrected. Not trying to be argumentative with you personally over the issue at all (#respect) ... @Joel could you give us your opinion? I think everyone would just like to know the devs stance ... whatever it is, then at least we can all move on knowing that it's not something that's been overlooked.

    Additionally and regarding the latest matchmaking fix ... it's great that the devs are looking into things and trying to level the field of competition for top 100 rewards. A bit of feedback as I'm not sure we're quite there yet. Last evening PSboss (who's trying for #1) encountered one of the most brutal stretches of matchmaking our chat had ever seen; at least 10 straight opponents that were absolutely 100% class A, top tier players (the kind that make you groan or want to wait an hour) ... simultaneously we were watching the matches of a competitor close on his heals (with a RP in the mid 200's) facing significantly lesser competition. *Yes I realize this isn't a complete sample size.

    Simply stated, if the idea and intent is that players competing for top 100 must all face a similar/equivalent subset of opponents, then it seems we're not quite there yet. Players that I've spoken with don't feel that opponents need to be locked into just facing other top 100 opponents, just that the competition is the SAME for all (could be easy or hard).

    And a big "Thank You" to the devs for listening to the playerbase and and actively trying to sort this issue :)
  • gmungmun Member
    Yeah Kudos to my friend Ace who has a massively OP level 18 Krexx :p

    However I'm sure it wasn't the Dev's intent to have a hero whose main use is to die due to how useful a 2 turn invincibility buff is for the snake sisters. And since dying is his best use, the fewer stars, lower defense, health etc. the better. As most current level 70 players had him at 6* full ascension when the active taunt was added we were not able to take advantage of this particular trait to the same extent.
    Gmun
  • @gmun <3 It's level 19 :) I didn't want you to overstate things lol :open_mouth:

    And aye, kudos to him (and anyone) for playing the system as it's presented to us to play; he's an outstanding player and I don't take exception to what he's doing (heck, I'm sure we'd all do the same if we could). That said (back in Oct of 2016 when Krexx was released), PVP was an entirely different animal and since then (with the introduction of Seasons etc ...), the meta has significantly changed with so many alterations to the game itself and the introduction of new heroes etc ... If all of us knew what we knew today, everyone would be running around with a L1 Krexx and Kobal (which is contrary to Eej's statement in the Summit regarding the devs wanting players to power up their rosters and not feel that there are penalties or that you're at a competitive disadvantage for doing so). I think the question is ... should older accounts be penalized for a lack of foresight back in October of last year and new accounts be given a competitive advantage for the perpetuity of the game? Whatever the devs rule here is what we'll all have to accept; just wanted to confirm that this was on their radar to make a judgement on vs. it happening and being unintentionally overlooked.
  • danacdanac Member
    danac wrote: »

    Disagree with this part. Building your roster for PVP requires strategy. Keeping Krexx low level is just a better variation of not putting defensive runes on Krexx. I don’t see any reason to force players to modify heroes in specific ways just to make them easier for their opponents.

    Well that's not a surprising stance given your guild affiliation with one of the players prominently using this to their advantage. However the majority of people that I've spoken with feel that this is an unfair advantage and most likely, something that wasn't anticipated in the programming which should be corrected.

    Irrelevant. There are other issues than the fact ace is in my guild.
    For instance, if you're going to force hero levels, what is the cutoff? Are you going to require all heroes to be within 3 levels of the player level? 5?
    What then when you get a PVP quest like this week's and you have the hero but it's not the right level and you're out of exp potions?

    What's to stop someone from getting Krexx but keeping him 0a and 3*?
    Are we going to require * levels and ascensions too?

    And what about those poor folks who finally get Kai and shove him in their defense ASAP just because of his aoe reduction buff? You're punishng them too.

    Meanwhile, doing that to Krexx makes him useless in other ways. He's incredibly tanky, and you can buff him up defensively and make him useful in PVP that way too. Plus he's useless in PVE when underpowered, which may not matter much in general, but can be a liability in specialty events.

    All of this in addition to what I said earlier, that building your roster is strategy. You can't force people to rune or tailor their heroes a certain way just to make it easier on people.



    Last evening PSboss (who's trying for #1) encountered one of the most brutal stretches of matchmaking our chat had ever seen; at least 10 straight opponents that were absolutely 100% class A, top tier players (the kind that make you groan or want to wait an hour) ... simultaneously we were watching the matches of a competitor close on his heals (with a RP in the mid 200's) facing significantly lesser competition. *Yes I realize this isn't a complete sample size.

    And this was a problem how?

    PSBoss did about 100 matches in something like 2 hours last night. Last i checked they were at 760 raids 72 hours into the season, miles ahead of spot #2, and clearly intending to spend their way to # no matter how much it took.

    When you're buying that many raids, does it matter if you're forced to raid middle every once in a while?

    ...Not trying to belittle your point on matchmaking so much as saying your example might not be the best one.
  • @danac - I'm not going to battle you or anyone over anything ... we're all entitled to our opinions and to express them. Whether you and I agree or disagree is irrelevant. You do bring up some good points on lower level heroes; I never stated that I'd spent the time to think through all the different permutations. However my opinion is unchanged in that I (and nearly everyone that I know), wants a level playing field for PVP since it grants unique/limited rewards. I asked @Joel for the devs to take a stance and tell the community whether this is an oversight, or something they condone nothing more. The fact that you like blue, and I like red is irrelevant ... I think (for the reasons stated previously) bringing a L19 hero, who's greatest value is to die, is an unfair/unintended advantage once the competition reaches the Boss Leaderboard and you don't so our votes cancel each other out. The only thing that matters is what the devs think (and why I asked them to clarify their stance).

    So you stated previously that you think building your PVP roster is "strategy" and that you can't force people to "rune or tailor their heroes a certain way". By that logic I assume you support people just intentionally removing runes to get easier matches and feel that's good for the game or "fair"? After all it's certainly a "strategic" move. I don't blame anyone for doing it btw (like bringing an unleveled hero to die) ... don't hate the player, ask for the system that allows them to do it to be revised.

    Regarding PSboss ... it's again irrelevant how many gems he decides to put into his effort or how he managed to pull ahead and perhaps demoralize the competition into chasing him further. The point I'm making is that Matchmaking isn't fixed yet (which was the entire point of this thread in the first place). Many that I know feel that this issue is the single biggest problem with the game that needs to be solved. Simply stated, I don't care if a person is L1 or L70, or if their roster power is 110k or 450k, if you're going to pass out unique rewards in a competitive "open world" style PVP event, the people that choose to press for those rewards need to face a similar/equal subset of matchmaking. Allowing people to gain those rewards while facing lesser completion is not only unfair, but devalues the accounts of those that have worked longer (and most likely spent more $$) to progress their own. Eej stated very clearly that they WANT players to level/power up!! What's happening doesn't promote that at all.

    No need for us to volley back and forth if we disagree ... you like blue and I like red I get it. The devs said they'd look into this issue so we'll see what happens. I was merely pointing out that the "fix" that they said they applied wasn't really addressing the problem yet (perhaps there's more work and programming to do).

    It's ok to disagree ... that's what makes us all individuals and the world a wonderful place :) #respect Cheers!
  • wzangwzang Member
    My perspective on legendary conqueror is simply the player who is willing to put the most time in and has a decent knowledge to maintain streaks. By no means do you have to be skilled to get #1 but it certainly increases your chances.

    I agree with matchmaking on Legend tiers and that's about it. Any other factors that help or deter your journey you should live with. Spending thousands or investing a 1000 days doesn't give anyone the price of admission
    9gJSaHl.gif
  • FrogatismFrogatism Member
    Before I say anything, I hope this thread remains active and doesn't get taken down because of a group of players working together to derail the direction of this post that CK made, her intention is not to be confrontational or problematic for anyone.

    Its just odd seeing a lower level in such a high rank. It's not his fault, not any players fault. Whatever type of system the devs have created has made this possible, but we shouldn't spend hours and hours bashing them. I'm sure it wasn't even their original intent. Why would they make it easier for some players and not all? There's no logic in that folks. It's not the easiest fix and I know we live in a day and age where we want stuff now now now but it doesn't always work that way. I hope the devs find a solution soon(tm), with all the feedback, it's obvious they are working on it. So let's all hang back, relax and be grateful for when the change occurs.

    As far as the game mechanics providing certain game advantages for some and not for everybody well.. I'd like for it to be equal but I don't think it can. Whatever types of strategy people are conjuring up, as long as the game allows it without any repercussions (now I'm not claiming it won't be frowned upon by the db community) but it's not against any db rules so.. there's really nothing stopping us players from keeping heroes weak on purpose or leaving horrible runes on heroes.

    Well that's all I have regarding this topic, I can't wait for the devs to find a happy medium for us all, have a good rest of the day folks!
  • nunyanunya Member
    I don't care if Ace has a level 19 Krex, aside from being slightly jealous. I just wish that I could see his defense sometimes. He's always fun to lose to. :) And I think the fact that I never see his defense points to how matchmaking is broken. Legendary conqueror doesn't matter to me. That's just who has the most gems and free time.
    nunya
  • It's not just about Legendary Conqueror to me as that's a minor subset of the greater issue. I'm simply for a level playing field (for all players of all levels) for the reasons previously mentioned; I feel it's the fairest system to have and honors the effort, time, dedication, and yes money that people have invested in this game :)

    Definitely not looking to be controversial or confrontational with anyone. As someone who doesn't have the privilege of participating in the Summits and/or has a direct link to speak with the developers, I've chosen to post on the forums in the hopes of improving the game that I love playing and trying to understand the devs thoughts for the future of the game. Again we're all entitled to differing opinions and there's no right or wrong; this is their game and I'm nothing but a single paying customer.

    I suppose I liken this to going to a restaurant that you really like and finding that over the past few months, they've removed many of your favorite items; because you love going there you politely ask the management what their plans are for their future menu offerings so that you can decide whether or not you want to continue to dine there.

    TBH maybe they want PVP to be just the way it is now and feel that it appeals to masses, involves the most people, and that a level playing field isn't a priority. If that's the case then I'm fine with their decision; I just want to know what's on the future menu so I can decide for myself where to spend my leisure time and dollars.

    I'm done posting on this topic as I believe there's noting more constructive to say ... thanks for everyone's contributions and thoughts. Cheers :)
  • danacdanac Member
    ... I think (for the reasons stated previously) bringing a L19 hero, who's greatest value is to die, is an unfair/unintended advantage

    When does it become fair? If Krexx is level 68 and unruned so he dies nearly as easily to all the firepower 70 level players bring, is it still unfair?
    Quite frankly, I'd *love* for all the Krexx's I face to die immediately, I could plan my strategy accordingly. Instead they hang around with their annoying taunts.

    Let's be clear, a level 19 Krexx is not a threat. Invincible snakes are not a threat.
    Ace's uber-runed reptile team is a threat. Penguin's demigod MK is a threat. You wanna fight Final Boss players [besides me], then you should be *thankful* you're only facing 3 threats on a team.

    Regarding PSboss ... it's again irrelevant how many gems he decides to put into his effort ... The point I'm making is that Matchmaking isn't fixed yet

    It won't ever be. There's too many balls to juggle. If you restrict matchmaking too much, you get the same players in your choices over and over again.
    Too little, and you get what I saw. I'm currently ranked with 1k give ro take from #100, have been for two days, and I was getting level 64 teams today.

    I'm not saying don't tweak matchmaking, but this is simply something that will always have people complaining about it no matter what the end result will be. But I am saying If you're going to do [last I checked] 1000 raids in 4 days, then matchmaking becomes irrelevant.
Sign In or Register to comment.

© 2015 Big Fish Games. Inc., Big Fish, the Big Fish logo, and Dungeon Boss are
trademarks of Big Fish Games, Inc., used with permission www.bigfishgames.com