Patch Notes: April 12th, 2018 [Marrow, Therand, and Other Dwarf Reworks!]

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Comments

  • echonapechonap Member
    I don't usually talk about attack, any team is ok in attack cause A.I is stupid, and I was talking about defense

    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.
  • You said she isn't relevant. If she is used semi-often in the meta, she is relevant.

    Not for defense tho, I am usually not including offense...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • echonap wrote: »
    I don't usually talk about attack, any team is ok in attack cause A.I is stupid, and I was talking about defense

    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.

    Idk slow can be pretty relevant
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    echonap wrote: »
    I don't usually talk about attack, any team is ok in attack cause A.I is stupid, and I was talking about defense

    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.

    However, most Defending teams still share many of the same heroes. When you get to that level of competitive play, there are other factors besides win-rate.

    For example, a team with Solaris/Gore/Grog/Lilly is going to take most players a considerable amount of time to take down, assuming they can take it down at all. If the Defenders were just heroes like Sifu, Goblins, Rogar, etc... a raid would take no more than a couple seconds.
    The time it actually takes to win a raid can play a role, because most top players aren’t limited by raid tickets. They’ve either saved up thousands of them, or have enough gems to keep buying them. So how many raids they can do per day actually is something they have to think about - And the same goes for their enemies when they’re setting up their Defenders.
    Sometimes winning isn’t just about defeating your enemy, but slowing them down as much as possible. If you can do both, great. But if they’re practically guaranteed to win anyways, perhaps making the most annoying team for them to deal with is your next best card to play.

    Also, even if win rates are at 97%+, there still is that 3%, Which would easily be wiped out if people just didn’t care who their Defenders were. Consider that the difference between a 100% win rate and a 99% win rate is still a big deal. That means that at some point, someone lost their streak. And in the top 100, losing a streak can be a death sentence to staying up there.
  • You said she isn't relevant. If she is used semi-often in the meta, she is relevant.

    Not for defense tho, I am usually not including offense...

    I don't think you know what relevant means... a character is relevant if it gets even minor frequent use on defense OR offense...
  • toothlessmontoothlessmon Member
    edited April 21
    You said she isn't relevant. If she is used semi-often in the meta, she is relevant.

    Not for defense tho, I am usually not including offense...

    I don't think you know what relevant means... a character is relevant if it gets even minor frequent use on defense OR offense...

    the word relevance means usage, which he is only used in offense where all heroes can be used... as long as they are good or with Solaris preferably both, and she is just awful in defense so i am just saying that i don't think she is relevant to defense, I get she counters res teams, but she isn't to grand against any other, at least flying counters more then 1 team, my point is she is extremely situational to be as jaw-breaking as people say she is, I mean she doesn't even counter other Solaris teams to well, she may be good to burn some corpses, but that isn't the end of the world for Solaris teams, if she had purge then she would be jaw-breaking considering all of the prevention of burns from early to late game given by Solaris so it also takes to long for her to burn the corpses, I admit that she could be used as a mega survival hero, but idk if i can see where that survives heavy hitters like agnon.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • I could list many heroes that suck even on offense. She is above average and even has a utility directly against Solaris so I'd say she's relevant.
  • I said as long as they are good or are with Solaris they have no survivability and die all the time, this is including the gap of legend one tho, i admit legend two and three... Way more strict, good thing I already had good heroes like jabber to carry me there XD
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    You said she isn't relevant. If she is used semi-often in the meta, she is relevant.

    Not for defense tho, I am usually not including offense...

    I don't think you know what relevant means... a character is relevant if it gets even minor frequent use on defense OR offense...

    the word relevance means usage, which he is only used in offense where all heroes can be used... as long as they are good or with Solaris preferably both, and she is just awful in defense so i am just saying that i don't think she is relevant to defense, I get she counters res teams, but she isn't to grand against any other, at least flying counters more then 1 team, my point is she is extremely situational to be as jaw-breaking as people say she is, I mean she doesn't even counter other Solaris teams to well, she may be good to burn some corpses, but that isn't the end of the world for Solaris teams, if she had purge then she would be jaw-breaking considering all of the prevention of burns from early to late game given by Solaris so it also takes to long for her to burn the corpses, I admit that she could be used as a mega survival hero, but idk if i can see where that survives heavy hitters like agnon.

    If they're relevant on either Offense or Defense, they're relevant in PvP. You can make that general claim. It is like cats and dogs. They are both very different, but I can categorize both under 'Fluffy cute domesticated pet'. It does not matter whether I specify cat or dog, people will just take that general term at face value and agree that fluffy cute domesticated pets are good.

    If a hero is used at all in PvP, it is relevant in PvP. Case closed.
  • danacdanac Member
    You can make that general claim. It is like cats and dogs. They are both very different, but I can categorize both under 'Fluffy cute domesticated pet'.

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  • echonapechonap Member
    echonap wrote: »
    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.

    This comment was a direct rebuttal to toothless' comment that he only considers defense when thinking about pvp relevance. My point is that most defenses are worthless right now, so judging a hero by their defensive prowess is not a good way to weigh their pvp relevance.
    For example, a team with Solaris/Gore/Grog/Lilly is going to take most players a considerable amount of time to take down, assuming they can take it down at all.

    I can beat this defense 100% of the time (literally never lost to it), usually in under 3 rounds. This is a cake defense. I would gladly fight this every match for an entire season. There is 0 probability of losing to this defense if you know what you are doing (and have the runes I guess).

    To me, a hero is relevant if he forms part of a team that is the best solution against any defense. For example, just because I can clear a defense using Ignus, it does not make him relevant if I could three-man that same battle. However, Hopper is relevant because she is essential against many beast teams.

  • echonap wrote: »
    echonap wrote: »
    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.

    This comment was a direct rebuttal to toothless' comment that he only considers defense when thinking about pvp relevance. My point is that most defenses are worthless right now, so judging a hero by their defensive prowess is not a good way to weigh their pvp relevance.
    For example, a team with Solaris/Gore/Grog/Lilly is going to take most players a considerable amount of time to take down, assuming they can take it down at all.

    I can beat this defense 100% of the time (literally never lost to it), usually in under 3 rounds. This is a cake defense. I would gladly fight this every match for an entire season. There is 0 probability of losing to this defense if you know what you are doing (and have the runes I guess).

    To me, a hero is relevant if he forms part of a team that is the best solution against any defense. For example, just because I can clear a defense using Ignus, it does not make him relevant if I could three-man that same battle. However, Hopper is relevant because she is essential against many beast teams.

    well my team has a 24% winrate in defense, yet somehow i can win like 83% of the time in offense, this is crazy, and says how bad ai is, i bet a lot of players have similar numbers, but if ai played how the player did then winrates would be more like 50-75% instead of the high numbers we get today, we are basically battling 5 year olds, i know because i let my brothers son play my account, and he played EXACTLY like AI! it was kinda scary, i never let him play on my account since. Basically people think they are the best for beating A.I of a 5 year old and haven't faced the skill for someone even close to their age... unless they are just barely reaching double digits which i highly doubt those people play this game considering that new minecraft game... Fortnite i think its called, think thats overhyped tho
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • echonap wrote: »
    echonap wrote: »
    Nobody is relevant on defense. Top 100 is winning at a combined 97% rate. I personally have not lost a raid in close to two weeks.

    This comment was a direct rebuttal to toothless' comment that he only considers defense when thinking about pvp relevance. My point is that most defenses are worthless right now, so judging a hero by their defensive prowess is not a good way to weigh their pvp relevance.
    For example, a team with Solaris/Gore/Grog/Lilly is going to take most players a considerable amount of time to take down, assuming they can take it down at all.

    I can beat this defense 100% of the time (literally never lost to it), usually in under 3 rounds. This is a cake defense. I would gladly fight this every match for an entire season. There is 0 probability of losing to this defense if you know what you are doing (and have the runes I guess).

    To me, a hero is relevant if he forms part of a team that is the best solution against any defense. For example, just because I can clear a defense using Ignus, it does not make him relevant if I could three-man that same battle. However, Hopper is relevant because she is essential against many beast teams.

    well my team has a 24% winrate in defense, yet somehow i can win like 83% of the time in offense, this is crazy, and says how bad ai is, i bet a lot of players have similar numbers, but if ai played how the player did then winrates would be more like 50-75% instead of the high numbers we get today, we are basically battling 5 year olds, i know because i let my brothers son play my account, and he played EXACTLY like AI! it was kinda scary, i never let him play on my account since. Basically people think they are the best for beating A.I of a 5 year old and haven't faced the skill for someone even close to their age... unless they are just barely reaching double digits which i highly doubt those people play this game considering that new minecraft game... Fortnite i think its called, think thats overhyped tho

    Will if AI was super good, PVP wouldn't be fun because we would be destroyed all the time! They tried to balance it with turn priority and bonus energy, but the AI can't think on the go.
  • Evil_SpiritsEvil_Spirits Unconfirmed, Member
    Fortnite IS overhyped. It's nothing new or original. While this isn't either, I haven't seen any other mobile game like this that are actually good. DB does have a competitor and I tried it but it just seemed like a mess of confusion and more repetitive/lacking heroes.
  • I think that Alexandros should get some buffs, he's immensely underpowered... :/
    There once was a monster from the ice
    But here's a bit of advice
    Don't try to fight him, your fate will be quite grim
    You'd go from hero to human sacrifice
  • danacdanac Member
    echonap wrote: »

    To me, a hero is relevant if he forms part of a team that is the best solution against any defense. For example, just because I can clear a defense using Ignus, it does not make him relevant if I could three-man that same battle. However, Hopper is relevant because she is essential against many beast teams.

    nah. A hero is relevant if they can be an integral part of a winning offense or defense team.

    Ideally, one could have a bunch of options for a bunch of teams and every hero would be relevant.
    Hopper is relevant, because she can be an integral part of a winning team.

  • Nitpick is pretty useful, as well as Kai for both defense and offense (discounting their squishiness)
    There once was a monster from the ice
    But here's a bit of advice
    Don't try to fight him, your fate will be quite grim
    You'd go from hero to human sacrifice
  • echonapechonap Member
    danac wrote: »

    nah. A hero is relevant if they can be an integral part of a winning offense or defense team.

    Ideally, one could have a bunch of options for a bunch of teams and every hero would be relevant.
    Hopper is relevant, because she can be an integral part of a winning team.

    I would not disagree with this. The only real difference is, I used the term "best" and you used "integral". Lots of room for interpretation.

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