Power Scaling Killing Tower

As it is now, balancing is just releasing a hero that is better than the previous best hero. This isn't good since this means teams constantly get harder and harder including the tower. Throughout the tower, we have to face harder and harder opponents while our health bars are constantly dropping. This became so much harder when Agnon came out and one shots people each floor hes on and Solaris doesn't have the fury to res them. Now, the barbs come out and gain invincibility each attack they don't die. I beat the tower 1 time in the past 4 days and used to be able to beat it every time when Solaris teams were prevalent. I can't see the tower ever getting easier until the devs nerf super powerful heroes as a form of balance rather than just releasing new OP heroes. Seems like a lazy way to balance.

Comments

  • toothlessmontoothlessmon Member
    edited May 2
    As it is now, balancing is just releasing a hero that is better than the previous best hero. This isn't good since this means teams constantly get harder and harder including the tower. Throughout the tower, we have to face harder and harder opponents while our health bars are constantly dropping. This became so much harder when Agnon came out and one shots people each floor hes on and Solaris doesn't have the fury to res them. Now, the barbs come out and gain invincibility each attack they don't die. I beat the tower 1 time in the past 4 days and used to be able to beat it every time when Solaris teams were prevalent. I can't see the tower ever getting easier until the devs nerf super powerful heroes as a form of balance rather than just releasing new OP heroes. Seems like a lazy way to balance.


    Try using some purge or caster runes with an aoe=easy win because barbs are never runed to hp so they will get ones spotted... Or just use grog and Solaris on a floor, for some strange reason the invincability allows sometimes a hero to stay alive at 0 health...


    Also flying teams absolutely desomate this team so maybe try that... I don't got the resources to make a flying team but I bet others do XD
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • echonapechonap Member
    Maybe beating the tower isn't meant to be a given. It is worth more than half the free gems that one can earn daily. Not everyone is entitled to it.
  • echonap wrote: »
    Maybe beating the tower isn't meant to be a given. It is worth more than half the free gems that one can earn daily. Not everyone is entitled to it.

    That's obvious. I'm just saying that it is constantly getting more difficult even for people with great rosters and that the constant OP new heroes should be toned down a bit.
  • toothlessmontoothlessmon Member
    edited May 2
    echonap wrote: »
    Maybe beating the tower isn't meant to be a given. It is worth more than half the free gems that one can earn daily. Not everyone is entitled to it.

    That's obvious. I'm just saying that it is constantly getting more difficult even for people with great rosters and that the constant OP new heroes should be toned down a bit.

    But then it's going to be fire and frost all over again, and if you don't know how that turned out it turned out horribly, and for anyone that has never heard of classic DB sit down and let me tell you a story...
    (Imagine the story is being told by the people who tell those knight stories)



    There once was a hero called tsume he killed everybody a lot, then they released a counter called fire, they burned him a lot, then there was frost so mega op getting, survivability so rare, then people started using tsume and BOVuuus they were so mega op they added it to fire, then people who had them in defense would usually triumph, then people noticed the great and amazing power of healing aoe.... Then there was a mega fi-re Teaam, some would run a nub nub, some would run bovus and tsume, all of them usually ran ignus and squinchy becauuse back then pyromaniac dealt 2x damage!!!! Now let me tell you the tale of the rat that came after thaaat, they released a new hero, but before this their were meta teams forming here and there, some people used a ninja no one would use today, there was an undead team people used that would counter the frost team later on, but it was mega countered by that ninja, so anyway...

    That new hero was a queen of meta, her powers Mega op, her name was ice bloom, she froze all who would even stare, she would freeze her teammates, increasing damage they did, healing them a lot, allowing them to attack while frozen... And then people started using another legend of old, his name was igorok with him the team was complete, they would throw in two other ice types so they would be compleeete, then they... Slowly... Raised to the top

    Ice types did 4x people complaining bout these teams left and right, then they released a patch... A very dasterdly patch it was, what brought a powerful resource called runes to the game!!!! And they nerfed them so hard and now the war is restarting again...

    (Frost is Solaris teams and fire is those barb teams)

    #LetsNotRestartAWarThatEndedSoLongAgo


    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • So... you're agreeing with me?
  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    Agnon presents his own difficulties in the tower, but is not unbeatable.

    My current tactic is to take Goretusk along as a sacrifice, with Zomm to bring him back as a zomminion.

    Agnon is doing 100x damage to my Goretusk (10x 5x 2x) with his drop attack, so of course Goretusk is dead meat. Then he revives as a zomminion tank, so he can taunt again to keep Agnon busy. Meantime I use Shade/Hopper/Zom to pick off the rest of the defending team.

    Next floor, Goretusk is back.
  • So... you're agreeing with me?

    Nope, I'm saying that the wide nerfs are always bad no matter what, last time they did it hundred of guild families broke,including my original one, I am scared they will make like a second row of runes, take away everyone's runes for a mega reset... This is one reason why players aren't as helpful/guiding the devs as we used to be, we asked for nerfs a lot, nerfed entire teams to oblivion, we blame devs because they I'd what we wanted, nerf Kira, we blame devs for doing what we wanted... At this rate they will think we are idiots...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Barleyman wrote: »
    Agnon presents his own difficulties in the tower, but is not unbeatable.

    My current tactic is to take Goretusk along as a sacrifice, with Zomm to bring him back as a zomminion.

    Agnon is doing 100x damage to my Goretusk (10x 5x 2x) with his drop attack, so of course Goretusk is dead meat. Then he revives as a zomminion tank, so he can taunt again to keep Agnon busy. Meantime I use Shade/Hopper/Zom to pick off the rest of the defending team.

    Next floor, Goretusk is back.


    That's a little disgusting... But hilarious, bet it's fun XD
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • I've had a few teams beat full barb teams and have seem others beat them. You gotta use your noodle :P Start using those heroes you think are worthless. Now that barbs exist, Kobal and Agnon are just 2 counters.
  • I've had a few teams beat full barb teams and have seem others beat them. You gotta use your noodle :P Start using those heroes you think are worthless. Now that barbs exist, Kobal and Agnon are just 2 counters.

    Kobal?
  • danacdanac Member
    wait......

    Agnon is one shotting your heroes in the tower?

    I didn't think my runes were that good.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    Maybe if taunt was changed to inherently provide Mammoth Guard style damage reduction it'd help out all those outdated tanks, without the need to go back and buff them one by one. So if Sir William pops his taunt, his team takes -30% damage. This DR wouldn't stack with Mammoth Guard or itself, it'd use the most powerful effect; Goretusk would remain effectively unchanged since when he's taunting, he's providing -75% DR. A Solaris/Pig/Julius/Leo team would only see one of the taunt-DRs apply, so when Leo taunts in the second turn the team would still have 30% DR, not 90%.

    Sir William and co. would still suck, but at least they'd be of some use.

    At the moment, the main source of reliable mitigation in the tower comes from Goretusk and Ferno. That's fine for me since I have both of those heroes fully ascended, and I also have a Zomm, but it must suck for those without.
  • Stinky wrote: »
    Maybe if taunt was changed to inherently provide Mammoth Guard style damage reduction it'd help out all those outdated tanks, without the need to go back and buff them one by one. So if Sir William pops his taunt, his team takes -30% damage. This DR wouldn't stack with Mammoth Guard or itself, it'd use the most powerful effect; Goretusk would remain effectively unchanged since when he's taunting, he's providing -75% DR. A Solaris/Pig/Julius/Leo team would only see one of the taunt-DRs apply, so when Leo taunts in the second turn the team would still have 30% DR, not 90%.

    Sir William and co. would still suck, but at least they'd be of some use.

    At the moment, the main source of reliable mitigation in the tower comes from Goretusk and Ferno. That's fine for me since I have both of those heroes fully ascended, and I also have a Zomm, but it must suck for those without.

    I think taunt is good as it is now- stopping single target effects from allies- with some variation. There's always other taunts like bonus health, defense, burning skin but it would be great to have more unique variations.
    danac wrote: »
    wait......

    Agnon is one shotting your heroes in the tower?

    I didn't think my runes were that good.

    Any Agnon above level 4 can 1 shot my Pignius or Goretusk... doesn't help that Pignius has the guardian rune and GT is naturally high defense. I normally see a 9x among other multipliers.
  • Stinky wrote: »
    Maybe if taunt was changed to inherently provide Mammoth Guard style damage reduction it'd help out all those outdated tanks, without the need to go back and buff them one by one. So if Sir William pops his taunt, his team takes -30% damage. This DR wouldn't stack with Mammoth Guard or itself, it'd use the most powerful effect; Goretusk would remain effectively unchanged since when he's taunting, he's providing -75% DR. A Solaris/Pig/Julius/Leo team would only see one of the taunt-DRs apply, so when Leo taunts in the second turn the team would still have 30% DR, not 90%.

    Sir William and co. would still suck, but at least they'd be of some use.

    At the moment, the main source of reliable mitigation in the tower comes from Goretusk and Ferno. That's fine for me since I have both of those heroes fully ascended, and I also have a Zomm, but it must suck for those without.

    I think taunt is good as it is now- stopping single target effects from allies- with some variation. There's always other taunts like bonus health, defense, burning skin but it would be great to have more unique variations.
    danac wrote: »
    wait......

    Agnon is one shotting your heroes in the tower?

    I didn't think my runes were that good.

    Any Agnon above level 4 can 1 shot my Pignius or Goretusk... doesn't help that Pignius has the guardian rune and GT is naturally high defense. I normally see a 9x among other multipliers.

    Only if that agnon has super runes, idk if a lesser runed agnon would pose any threat at lvl 4 to a 70...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Stinky wrote: »
    Maybe if taunt was changed to inherently provide Mammoth Guard style damage reduction it'd help out all those outdated tanks, without the need to go back and buff them one by one. So if Sir William pops his taunt, his team takes -30% damage. This DR wouldn't stack with Mammoth Guard or itself, it'd use the most powerful effect; Goretusk would remain effectively unchanged since when he's taunting, he's providing -75% DR. A Solaris/Pig/Julius/Leo team would only see one of the taunt-DRs apply, so when Leo taunts in the second turn the team would still have 30% DR, not 90%.

    Sir William and co. would still suck, but at least they'd be of some use.

    At the moment, the main source of reliable mitigation in the tower comes from Goretusk and Ferno. That's fine for me since I have both of those heroes fully ascended, and I also have a Zomm, but it must suck for those without.

    I think taunt is good as it is now- stopping single target effects from allies- with some variation. There's always other taunts like bonus health, defense, burning skin but it would be great to have more unique variations.
    danac wrote: »
    wait......

    Agnon is one shotting your heroes in the tower?

    I didn't think my runes were that good.

    Any Agnon above level 4 can 1 shot my Pignius or Goretusk... doesn't help that Pignius has the guardian rune and GT is naturally high defense. I normally see a 9x among other multipliers.

    Only if that agnon has super runes, idk if a lesser runed agnon would pose any threat at lvl 4 to a 70...

    You know I'm not talking theoretical... it actually happens to me? It generally has to be FA and since my Pignius (with gaurdian) and high defense GT don't much health on either, Agnon wrecks them.
  • danacdanac Member
    danac wrote: »
    wait......

    Agnon is one shotting your heroes in the tower?

    I didn't think my runes were that good.

    Any Agnon above level 4 can 1 shot my Pignius or Goretusk... doesn't help that Pignius has the guardian rune and GT is naturally high defense. I normally see a 9x among other multipliers.

    Goretusk, sure. But I have much better luck when he targets Shade or Zomm or Lilly or Ferno.
    In the tower, that's what I usually go up against him with.

    I really don't use Goretusk in the tower, tho with the barbs I might.

    If it's a Solaris Lilly Agnon team, I go Solaris Lille Agnon Ferno.

    If it's a Shade Agnon [Zomm] team, I go Shade Agnon Dagrund Zomm.
    Sometimes they'll put Agnong in with beasts, then I do Shade Agnon Hopper Zomm.

    Agnon will usually go after Shade or Agnon, so I'm ok. Every once I a while he'll hit Zomm and rarely kill him.
    Then I'm in trouble.


  • I don't have the resources to have very good secondary teams. The only non-main team heroes I have with good rune loadouts are Lily, Shade, and Lupina.
  • Prevent Agnon killing GT with Zen ;) His momentum stays where it is and Agnon wastes his ability.
  • But Zen sucks D: He would take a hero slot that could be better used by someone else.
  • ChitonChiton Member
    What you are saying has already a name. It's named power creep and it's studied in game design as one of the fatal consecuences of giving the gameplay variety by quantity rather than variety in kind.
  • Zen is very useful still, he certainly doesn't suck as long as you aren't facing a full barb team.
  • Zen is very useful still, he certainly doesn't suck as long as you aren't facing a full barb team.

    The only thing he's useful for is ensuring a single hero lives through the first round. There aren't many heroes that he is better than an extra good hero on.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    Zen and other such one-trick wonders would be better if they recharged energy when they weren't in the battle proper. As it is, once Zen's prevented Agnon from murdering GT, or Rocky's done his +dodge move, etc., they might as well be dead; good luck with the Agnons waiting on the other floors for some of that sweet, sweet Goretusk blood.
  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    echonap wrote: »
    Maybe beating the tower isn't meant to be a given. It is worth more than half the free gems that one can earn daily. Not everyone is entitled to it.

    That's obvious. I'm just saying that it is constantly getting more difficult even for people with great rosters and that the constant OP new heroes should be toned down a bit.
    I don't have the resources to have very good secondary teams. The only non-main team heroes I have with good rune loadouts are Lily, Shade, and Lupina.


    I would not say I have a great roster by any means, but I have never failed to complete the tower despite the supposed uptick in power on newer heroes. It's really about strategy and having maybe 10 well-runed heroes you can rely on.

    Zomm is for me the key hero for the tower because as long as he survives, so does everyone else. I lost Zomm on floor one or two once, and though I made the tower anyway it was much more of a sweat. To try to ensure Zomm survives I have a healer rune on him (heals 10% of health at the end of every round).

    Shade is also a key player with his dark shroud and haunting. He can't self heal or have a healer rune (there are no dark healer runes), so I just crafted an elite vampire rune for him (with a disappointing 7% chance to steal some health). However if he dies he'll come back as long as Zomm survives so no biggie.

    I like using Hopper with Shade and Zomm as he does a lot of self-healing by munching corpses. He does stop Shade doing possession, there being nothing left to possess, but I can live with that.

    The 4th slot is usually Balog, or Goretusk if Agnon is present. Balog's Cry Havoc shout is an excellent delay on enemy skills, usually long enough to pick at least a couple off. Bull Rush is a great finishing move when you're down to just a single enemy.


    I don't use this team against Lily, as her sapping vines are just too dangerous, instead I use a Hopper/Grog-Gnog/Solaris/Leonidas. It requires more patience, but as long as Solaris and Leonidas can keep reviving each other you can't lose. If Agnon is present I replace Grog-Gnog with Goretusk. Ideally you'll get to strip Solaris's feather with Hopper just before she suicides, but if not Hopper will get theme eventually.
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