Its a shame that the community has been ignored

Since the addition of level 80 and Barbarian teams, the tower has been too hard to complete for most players.
(I think I was able to pass it once in the last week).
There have been numerous threads pointing to player grievances over this unpolished update that was either planned as a cash grab or not thought out at all. There has been no response, no answers just mute.
You have people that have invested over a year of playing in this game and you have effectively pulled the rug out from underneath their feet, and completely changed the meta. Anyone playing PVP will see that 90% of the teams are now Barbarian (maybe a hint that the devs screwed up), Barbarians in the tower are now a brick wall that you either get past or get wrecked on.
And to put the cherry on top, the Level cap was raised, further throwing off the balance of both PVP and the tower. Now you get to battle teams that
have higher stats than you can match, unless you spend hours of quick looting for that XP lift... but wait! the most common stamina refill is from tower points, and not passing or reaching a high enough floor wont net you enough points to sustain buying both available daily tower stamina packs.

since most of the recent grievances are from these two "updates", and there has been no indication that these issues will be addressed and fixed.

I mean the current meta is actually this: what over powered team will the devs screw the game up with next? And now that they have raised the level cap, once you reach level 80 how long will it be until they decide to raise the cap again? and so on and on it goes.

I am not going to continue to spend my money on a game that acts like hamster wheel.
I think that is the only way these devs are going to listen.
Oh the profanity!
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Comments

  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    We spoke with players yesterday at our bi-weekly guild summit, but I neglected to post a forum comment on the matter, so I apologize for that. We are aware of player frustration regarding the Tower of Pwnage. This is a complex issue, as it is due to player-based decisions (PVP defenses) and not the tower's code. We are looking into solutions to address this issue, but I cannot make any promises regarding when those solutions will be implemented. At the very least, I can assure you that we hear you loud and clear.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • WasiWasi Member
    edited June 5
    How about all the bugs in the tower? Have these been acknowledged?

    It’s frustrating when the forum has a bugs section yet comments don’t get addressed.
    ---
    The Potato Army
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    I read every post that is made on this forum, and we look into every issue that is brought to our attention, but I don't always post on every thread. I can only post so many variations of "we're looking into this, thank you for bringing it to our attention" before it becomes white noise and potentially appears insincere. That said, perhaps I've started posting such things too infrequently. I'll be mindful of my continued balancing act.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • RedE2QuitRedE2Quit Member
    Sorry Joel, the function and coding of the Tower to use only the same OP PvP teams floor after floor is ENTIRELY a Dev matter, as is the creation of the OP meta in the first place. Nice try at attempting to wring your hands claiming it is complex and all due to player choices. Simple quick solutions, limit defense character frequency, deactivate defense runes until a better solution can be determined, there wasn’t that easy.
  • danacdanac Member
    Joel wrote: »
    We spoke with players yesterday at our bi-weekly guild summit, but I neglected to post a forum comment on the matter, so I apologize for that. We are aware of player frustration regarding the Tower of Pwnage. This is a complex issue, as it is due to player-based decisions (PVP defenses) and not the tower's code. We are looking into solutions to address this issue, but I cannot make any promises regarding when those solutions will be implemented. At the very least, I can assure you that we hear you loud and clear.

    Just remove runs from defenses.

    You previously had them deactivated, then you made it so they'd be active.

    if you can change that back I think you'll find people can handle the tower much more easily.
  • WasiWasi Member
    Joel wrote: »
    I read every post that is made on this forum, and we look into every issue that is brought to our attention, but I don't always post on every thread. I can only post so many variations of "we're looking into this, thank you for bringing it to our attention" before it becomes white noise and potentially appears insincere. That said, perhaps I've started posting such things too infrequently. I'll be mindful of my continued balancing act.

    Ok fair point. I don’t know if this is feasible, but a Dev sticky with a line by line bugs register might be helpful to know that these have been acknowledged and being looked into?

    Ie -

    Tower

    - Renentry into a defeated tower, enemies back to fully charged abilities
    - Shade / other heroes killed reappear at full strength
    ---
    The Potato Army
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Apologies, I worded my comment poorly. I didn't mean to imply that this is not a developer matter or that this is the community's fault, merely that this situation is not being caused by a bug in our code, and that is part of what makes the issue complex.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • RedE2Quit wrote: »
    Simple quick solutions, limit defense character frequency, deactivate defense runes until a better solution can be determined, there wasn’t that easy.
    Simple solutions are never quick. First they need develop a complex fix that takes 3-6 months to code and “play test.” Then, only when they realize they can’t properly implement the update, they will opt for the simple solution.

    Good things take time :wink:
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited June 6
    Derision wrote: »
    I mean the current meta is actually this: what over powered team will the devs screw the game up with next? And now that they have raised the level cap, once you reach level 80 how long will it be until they decide to raise the cap again? and so on and on it goes.

    I am not going to continue to spend my money on a game that acts like hamster wheel.
    I think that is the only way these devs are going to listen.

    I’ll be as critical as the next guy when they deserve it, but I just don’t see it in this case. You’re complaints are that they increased the level cap and added a new hero/revamped old heroes? I wish they did more of that stuff! If they never added new content, the game would have died long ago. New content should be hard. New content should take time. And people willing to support the game with cash should be able to bypass some of that difficulty or that time requirement.

    And of course the game is a hamster wheel. All video games are a hamster wheel. You perform fantasy tasks in a fantasy environment for the right to perform other/harder/etc fantasy tasks. Doesn’t matter if it’s a sports game, rpg, action, whatever. Either you have fun doing so or you don’t, but there’s never a “real” reward that keeps it from being a hamster wheel.
  • BeedleBeedle Member
    I agree that something needs to be done with the tower. I'm not saying the tower but it should be doable. Either strip the runes, or make a code for creating random teams on each floor rather than taking them from pvp. The 6 star barb teams I see in the tower are literally roughly twice as hard for me to defeat than my regular pop matches... thats a problem. I am done complaining about the tower (as I do so to my guild mates every single day) but I really hope it changes for the betterment of the game. People need SOME resources to work with!
  • mrdahlmrdahl Member
    Derision wrote: »
    Since the addition of level 80 and Barbarian teams, the tower has been too hard to complete for most players.
    (I think I was able to pass it once in the last week).
    There have been numerous threads pointing to player grievances over this unpolished update that was either planned as a cash grab or not thought out at all. There has been no response, no answers just mute.
    You have people that have invested over a year of playing in this game and you have effectively pulled the rug out from underneath their feet, and completely changed the meta. Anyone playing PVP will see that 90% of the teams are now Barbarian (maybe a hint that the devs screwed up), Barbarians in the tower are now a brick wall that you either get past or get wrecked on.
    And to put the cherry on top, the Level cap was raised, further throwing off the balance of both PVP and the tower. Now you get to battle teams that
    have higher stats than you can match, unless you spend hours of quick looting for that XP lift... but wait! the most common stamina refill is from tower points, and not passing or reaching a high enough floor wont net you enough points to sustain buying both available daily tower stamina packs.

    since most of the recent grievances are from these two "updates", and there has been no indication that these issues will be addressed and fixed.

    I mean the current meta is actually this: what over powered team will the devs screw the game up with next? And now that they have raised the level cap, once you reach level 80 how long will it be until they decide to raise the cap again? and so on and on it goes.

    I am not going to continue to spend my money on a game that acts like hamster wheel.
    I think that is the only way these devs are going to listen.

    I honestly don't get the complaints about barbarians in PvP.
    Yes, everybody has them since they are the new power toy. It was the same with Shade, Koros, Ferno, Solaris, Agnon.
    Yes, they are very powerful, but also easily beatable. Tip: Gore-Tusk, Valkin, Ferno Grog-Gnog. Or try Shade with energy rune and your own barbarians.
    On top of that, Emily, Malice and Alex were quickly reworked with strong anti barbarian properties.

    Barbarians in the tower, on the other hand... On or two would be ok, but nine, as I had yesterday, is a bit much.

    Make Reptiles Great Again!
  • danacdanac Member
    mrdahl wrote: »
    Or try Shade with energy rune and your own barbarians.



    shhh. don't speak of that in front of One Eye....
  • edited June 6
    This is why I pointed out a while ago the tower should be demolished and a new mode should be opened. 4 opponents chosen randomly each match, only 1 hero per day like your tower roster. No repeated teams, only kill each hero 1 time. Oh yeah the scary Shalog teams are nothing with Emily, Ferno and Rocky. Hooray the mushroom is useful!
    Post edited by PsychedelicFox on
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    I never feel ignored. Joel PMs me a lot to discuss my posts. I think I’m his favorite.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    mrdahl wrote: »
    I honestly don't get the complaints about barbarians in PvP.
    Yes, everybody has them since they are the new power toy. It was the same with Shade, Koros, Ferno, Solaris, Agnon.
    Yes, they are very powerful, but also easily beatable. Tip: Gore-Tusk, Valkin, Ferno Grog-Gnog. Or try Shade with energy rune and your own barbarians.
    On top of that, Emily, Malice and Alex were quickly reworked with strong anti barbarian properties.

    Barbarians in the tower, on the other hand... On or two would be ok, but nine, as I had yesterday, is a bit much.
    My issue with the barbs in PvP is that I can get wiped out on round one by a barbarian onslaught even with GT and Ferno on my team - when the barbs are supposedly meant to be at their weakest! They don't feel like they need any ramp up at all, despite gaining damage per stack of rage. I have to hope that freezing skin runes trigger to control the barbs. It feels like it comes down to luck too often for comfort.

    Before the barbs, I could look at a team's rune power and know whether I could take them (at my level of competence, that was only 5k rune power, any higher was riskier). Now I don't have a reliable gauge of a team's power and PvP feels like a crapshoot if I'm unlucky enough to get three barb teams as my options.
  • edited June 6
    A lot of people say they can't beat these teams but then their rune power is weaker and all the barbs have guardian/survivor runes/greater/elite. You wouldn't stand a chance even with heroes that destroy barbs if you're runes aren't set to survive against them. Stonefist and astrid are useful against them, but not if your runes suck.
  • MaxBeamerMaxBeamer Member
    Cmon folks, after months of just waltzing up the the whole tower with the same team on every floor I am enjoying the tower. You just have to strategize and think things through. Today I completed the tower with just 6 heroes left alive, 2 of which I didn’t use at all. It was fun!
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 7
    Luckily for me, I don't see many barb teams in the tower, so I find the tower to still be enjoyable. I feel sorry for people that get flooded with barbs though. mrdahl asked why people don't like barbs in general PvP, so I answered him. :P
  • I would have thought that the obvious solution to the current Tower problems would simply be to alter the code to ensure that it doesn't pick teams with the same heroes more than once or twice. I understand that it's based on players' PVP teams, but surely it can't be so hard to tweak it so that it won't pick more than one or two that have got (say) Solaris on it, or Drakk, or anyone for that matter. I don't mind facing the current toughest PVP teams in the Tower, but I do mind facing lots of floors of the identical same team, because even if I have heroes that can take on that team, they're probably not all going to last long enough to keep doing it over and over again.

    Right now I have four consecutive floors of Goretusk/Emily/Agnon/Ferno, which seems to be the current anti-barbarian team of choice, and I'm not sure what I've got to counter that surprisingly tough team. Even if I can conjure something up, four of them in succession (and this is at the top of the tower) is too much to ask.
  • Rolla8Rolla8 Member
    I'll say it again here.

    The issue is not having Barbarians on every floor or the tower (although, that's definitely not helping).

    The issue is the runes that the teams appear to have on them. Ever since the level cap increase and the Grand Tournament, the tower heroes, regardless of if they are Barbs or not, seem to be hitting extremely hard, and also taking very reduced damage. This is what is causing the most problems in the tower, not the actual team makeups that appear on the floors.
    o3etqqdlgz6l.jpg
  • morillimorilli Member
    How about the attacking team gets the same benefits the defending teams does on each floor. That is start with full energy and all your abilities. Or if that is too much how about half energy each floor?
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    mrdahl wrote: »
    Derision wrote: »
    Since the addition of level 80 and Barbarian teams, the tower has been too hard to complete for most players.
    (I think I was able to pass it once in the last week).
    There have been numerous threads pointing to player grievances over this unpolished update that was either planned as a cash grab or not thought out at all. There has been no response, no answers just mute.
    You have people that have invested over a year of playing in this game and you have effectively pulled the rug out from underneath their feet, and completely changed the meta. Anyone playing PVP will see that 90% of the teams are now Barbarian (maybe a hint that the devs screwed up), Barbarians in the tower are now a brick wall that you either get past or get wrecked on.
    And to put the cherry on top, the Level cap was raised, further throwing off the balance of both PVP and the tower. Now you get to battle teams that
    have higher stats than you can match, unless you spend hours of quick looting for that XP lift... but wait! the most common stamina refill is from tower points, and not passing or reaching a high enough floor wont net you enough points to sustain buying both available daily tower stamina packs.

    since most of the recent grievances are from these two "updates", and there has been no indication that these issues will be addressed and fixed.

    I mean the current meta is actually this: what over powered team will the devs screw the game up with next? And now that they have raised the level cap, once you reach level 80 how long will it be until they decide to raise the cap again? and so on and on it goes.

    I am not going to continue to spend my money on a game that acts like hamster wheel.
    I think that is the only way these devs are going to listen.

    I honestly don't get the complaints about barbarians in PvP.
    Yes, everybody has them since they are the new power toy. It was the same with Shade, Koros, Ferno, Solaris, Agnon.
    Yes, they are very powerful, but also easily beatable. Tip: Gore-Tusk, Valkin, Ferno Grog-Gnog. Or try Shade with energy rune and your own barbarians.
    On top of that, Emily, Malice and Alex were quickly reworked with strong anti barbarian properties.

    Barbarians in the tower, on the other hand... On or two would be ok, but nine, as I had yesterday, is a bit much.

    Except that energy runes have no effect in the Tower. I have 2 Festives on Emily and the Dark Energy Rune on Shade. They work great in PvP, but do NOT work in the Tower; you have to build up energy by using those heroes on prior floors (which may or may not be difficult for them).

    I haven't missed a full tower run yet, but have had some very very close calls (finished with my final 4 heroes, all of which were at half life or less). Over the weekend my tower ended with 3 straight Shalog teams. You simply cannot have the energy to use the preferred strat (GT, Agnon, Emily, Ferno) for 3 straight towers, and even greater+ runed 70 teams are going to get wiped vs the first round of specials from the Shalog squad.

    You also need to send enough bait in the first round to trigger Abi, Shade AND Balog, which basically means 4 heroes/bait. Then, you better hope that your GT or Ferno don't die in the process, 3 straight times.

    I was more salty about the PvP changes; the matches were awful this go around. Glad they're done.

    The tower just takes longer, but it still can be done. Today I only got 1 barb team and am on floor 9 in about 15 min.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    I'll say it again here.

    The issue is not having Barbarians on every floor or the tower (although, that's definitely not helping).

    The issue is the runes that the teams appear to have on them. Ever since the level cap increase and the Grand Tournament, the tower heroes, regardless of if they are Barbs or not, seem to be hitting extremely hard, and also taking very reduced damage. This is what is causing the most problems in the tower, not the actual team makeups that appear on the floors.

    I definitely concur. Others in the forum have suggested the added star power is magnifying the affect of runes, and that explains at least part of the substantial increase in offensive and defensive power of some (or all?) of the tower opponents.
  • BeedleBeedle Member
    Ahhhh. Back in the days where the tower was actually beatable... I’m so frustrated lately and can’t even get fifty gems a day...

    Back then:udk13mwslf00.png

    Now: us4azynzs0e5.png
    5u6s9ez34cgj.png
  • The secret to beatable towers:

    1) Start a new account,
    2) Level up as fast as possible, and
    3) Star, rune and level only meta heroes (~16 heroes).

    Tower difficulty should not be tied to hero power.
  • The secret to beatable towers:

    1) Start a new account,
    2) Level up as fast as possible, and
    3) Star, rune and level only meta heroes (~16 heroes).

    Tower difficulty should not be tied to hero power.

    Did this just for Shade. He still lives as my absolute most ridiculous OP hero. Rocky and Ferno are key to beating barb teams though. Even with Shade on the team I literally have no trouble now. It's crazy how useful Rocky is.
  • Well, some of us are well and truly sick of the tower. The guild I had been in for years recently died due to players just getting jack of it and just moving on. It is very rare I don’t complete but then I get a day like today and an Emily teams Ferno blows the **** out of me while I do very little damage and I lose my best teams.

    Hopefully something is done before I join them, the daily frustration is getting very tiring.
  • echonapechonap Member
    I don't think it is tied to roster power. I am in the top 100 for RP and still bulldozing my way up the tower daily.
  • echonap wrote: »
    I don't think it is tied to roster power. I am in the top 100 for RP and still bulldozing my way up the tower daily.
    Huh? Do you think you are getting easier towers? “Bulldozing” to the top is not an oft-heard description of the current state of the tower on the forums.

  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    echonap wrote: »
    I don't think it is tied to roster power. I am in the top 100 for RP and still bulldozing my way up the tower daily.

    I think it's more a function of you having one of the 100 strongest rosters in the game, moreso than the Tower being easy.

    I recently threw all of my old 5* legendary improved runes on my non-go-to heroes to give myself a shot to chip away at the tower teams. I only have 14-16 heroes well runed (Greaters/Superiors or better), including my main PvP heroes: GT, Sol, Agnon, Ferno, Emily (those 5 are now 99% of my PvP attacks), Shade, Grog, Koros, Zomm and Hopper. My Barbs are on D, so they're all runed. That's 13. I think I have Shadowblade mixed with greaters/improved and everyone else is at that or lower. I used to have Lilly with all superiors, but I stripped them and put them mostly on Emily when she became META.

    Before I had 0 runes on anyone outside of my PvP group. Now I think 40+ heroes of mine have runes. Haven't lost a Tower yet, but the days of autorunning are definitely over.
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