Defense Team Help

Currently my Defense Team is getting stomped on by people with teams of 4 to 5-Star Heroes, and it's stopping me from actually climbing up from Legend III.

I am Level 34 (At the time of writing this) and my team consists of:
  • Shade (3-Star, Ascended once) - Meant to set up Kozar and Zomm for dealing more damage.
  • Drakk (4-Star, Ascended once) - Just there so that the whole team isn't weak against Light, and for later round shenanigans.
  • Kozar (3-Star, unascended) - Used to clean up the mess left behind by Shade's Haunted Past.
  • Zomm (4-Star, Ascended once) - There to support the team and to occasionally Disease or Heal.

I feel like my team isn't being very effective on Defense (negative Defense win rate), and I'm looking to switch some of my Defenders with Heroes like Alexandros, Grog-Gnog or Abigail (All are decently runed up).

Any ideas to make the team better?
Member of Hooligan Resort. Victim of timezone troubles.

Level: 41
Fav. Heroes: Hansuke, Masuta Kira

Comments

  • Switch Out Kozar And Drakk For Viperia And General Krexx :)
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 3
    My Shade/Balog/Drakk/Solaris defense team has around a 50% winrate. I'm sure Kozar has his upsides - I imagine that 50% chance to wipe out a barb's rage is handy at times - but because he's slow he's easy to neutralise. Especially unascended! Try and get ahold of Balog if you can and put him in Kozar's place.
  • SchnuppeSchnuppe Member
    Hello. What do you mean with negative Defense win rate? Everything above 20% win rate is a good defense win rate. Seriously.
    PvP is not balanced but it's focused on successful attacks. If it would be totally balanced everyone would have a 50:50 (win:loss) defense rate and 50:50 attack rate. Not much fun for attackers, larger win streaks would be impossible. Attackers have usually a 75% or even higher success rate. That means that at least 75% of other players' defenses have to fail.

    To improve your defense:
    • Ascend Shade as soon as possible. He needs his Shrouded buff to protect Zomm, Kozar and himself.
    • Don't worry about Light teams (yet). Masuta Kira is on a looooong trip (nerfed). Dark teams are beaten by purge + freeze attacks not by Light teams.
    • You can't do anything against tailored attacks. Ignore it.
    • Drakk alone gives you not much. He needs some green mates like Lily Blossom and Rocky, or his barbarian gang.
    • Replace Drakk with Grog-Gnog. Ascend Grog-Gnog. He has good synergies with Kozar.
    • Rune Grog-Grog and Kozar for attack. If they died they will return as powerful Zomminions.
    • Rune up Zomm for defensive. He is your safety net. Fully ascended he spawns Zomminions. Countless of them.

    If you are worried about Agnon one-shots your Zomm then use Lady Nimriel or better Daeris on team. Daris benefits from Shrouded but she is hard to get. Or team up with Goretusk (needs to be fully ascended!)

    Currently there is a PvP event running and you will get attacked much more than usual. If you want to climb up you need to do more successful attacks ;) You probably have to spend some gems to buy raid tickets.
  • Drakk isn't great until FA. Kozar could be replaced by Brom if you want synergies with Zomm and Shade. I think out of those 3, Abi would be the best choice to replace Kozar.
  • RaymondFRaymondF Member
    YummyMarsh wrote: »
    Switch Out Kozar And Drakk For Viperia And General Krexx :)

    Right, the problem is I don't have enough tokens to even unlock those two.

    Any other Heroes that can substitute them?
    Stinky wrote: »
    My Shade/Balog/Drakk/Solaris defense team has around a 50% winrate. I'm sure Kozar has his upsides - I imagine that 50% chance to wipe out a barb's rage is handy at times - but because he's slow he's easy to neutralise. Especially unascended! Try and get ahold of Balog if you can and put him in Kozar's place.

    Is he fine unascended or do I have to ascend him for his Rage Heart ability?
    Drakk isn't great until FA. Kozar could be replaced by Brom if you want synergies with Zomm and Shade. I think out of those 3, Abi would be the best choice to replace Kozar.

    Same here - I haven't unlocked Brom. I do have Hopper and Balog, though they're both 3-Star and Unascended. I also have Pontifex Mortis as an Unascended 4-Star. Could any of them be put in?
    Member of Hooligan Resort. Victim of timezone troubles.

    Level: 41
    Fav. Heroes: Hansuke, Masuta Kira
  • Here Mate! This Is A List Of All The Heroes And Their Viability :) http://forum.dungeonboss.com/discussion/59088/2018-hero-tier-list-but-true#latest
  • Hopper would be good if ascended once. Balog's good when he gets the "rage adds damage" and "silence on hit" passives. Ponti's not the greatest but he would combo with Shade and Zomm.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 5
    RaymondF wrote: »
    Is he fine unascended or do I have to ascend him for his Rage Heart ability?
    You should be fine unascended for now. His first move silences the enemy team, which can cause an opponent's strategy to come completely off the rails, especially at lower levels. Balog becomes even scarier once ascended, it's true, but at lower levels I found freeze resistance to be really important. There were a LOT of IGOs out there. You might want to get Shade fully ascended so that Drakk's the only guy on your team getting frozen.

    Ponti might look tempting, but don't put any resources into him. He's a noob trap.
  • Hey Raymond! Are You On The Hooli-LINE?
  • RaymondFRaymondF Member
    Now that I've returned after several long days, I guess I'll start replying again.

    First, Schnuppe, sorry about not replying to you - I didn't see your comment when I was doing my first run of replies.
    Schnuppe wrote: »
    Hello. What do you mean with negative Defense win rate? Everything above 20% win rate is a good defense win rate. Seriously.

    Wait, really? In the last few Seasons I had around 10% to 20% Win Rate (I'm Level 35, so none of those Barb / Solaris / Goretusk shenanigans have really happened to me yet.), and when I took a look at the rest of my guild, quite a lot of them did have positive defense win rates, so I assumed the whole "getting wrecked by FA Hero teams" meant that my Defense was garbage.
    Schnuppe wrote: »
    Ascend Shade as soon as possible. He needs his Shrouded buff to protect Zomm, Kozar and himself.

    I did ascend him once, and have enough of the regular Evos for his second ascension, but the 8 Spirit Evos and 4 Runed Evos seem a bit intimidating. My PWN Shop and PvP Shop have never had those Evos (I always get spammed with Subterranean and Crypt), and most of the time my 12th Floor reward is a Evo Monarch.
    Schnuppe wrote: »
    Rune Grog-Grog and Kozar for attack. If they died they will return as powerful Zomminions.
    Rune up Zomm for defensive. He is your safety net. Fully ascended he spawns Zomminions. Countless of them.

    Wait, the Zomminions' stats depend on the runes of the Hero they're replacing? I thought they depended on Zomm's stats. Also, would it hurt to build mostly HP-Atk runes for Kozar (For The Bigger They Are) and a few Vampiric Runes for Zomm (for a bit more damage)? I've already done that, with Kozar having several Improved Battle and Champion (HP and Atk) Runes, and with Zomm having 3 Vampiric Runes and 2 Bulwark Runes, so I'm not sure if they would reduce their effectiveness.
    Stinky wrote: »
    Ponti might look tempting, but don't put any resources into him. He's a noob trap.

    Did he fall out of the Meta in the time I left the game? On my previous account (late 2016) there were a lot of Level 70s who put ran Ponti in Shade teams, and I used to run him until around Level 38 when I managed to 3-Star and fully Ascend Bovus.
    YummyMarsh wrote: »
    Hey Raymond! Are You On The Hooli-LINE?

    Hooli-LINE? If that's the LINE chat room the various Hooligan family guilds use, then no, I'm not. It wasn't in the requirements when I asked Suzabella, so I just ended up not getting LINE.


    So currently, I've thought of five possible Defenses right now with my limited resources (My Goretusk is 1-Star, Agnon is 2-Star only) after seeing all these posts. And now that I've finally saved up 2700 Gems, I can try and get a few more Heroes and Hero tokens now.

    1) Shade, Balog, Kozar, Zomm: Mostly keeping my Defense intact, only switching Drakk with Balog.

    2) Shade, Grog-Gnog, Kozar, Zomm: I have all four Heroes runed up - I just have yet to Ascend Grog-Gnog and Kozar.

    3) Shade, Grog-Gnog, Brom, Zomm: Replacing Kozar with Brom if I do find him.

    4) Shade, Abigail, Balog, Drakk: Barb team with Shade, except only Abigail is at FA.

    5) Shade, Balog, Abigail, Zomm: Changing up my Team a bit more than the other Defense ideas, but could still work with the Runes I can get.
    Member of Hooligan Resort. Victim of timezone troubles.

    Level: 41
    Fav. Heroes: Hansuke, Masuta Kira
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 7
    RaymondF wrote: »
    Stinky wrote: »
    Ponti might look tempting, but don't put any resources into him. He's a noob trap.

    Did he fall out of the Meta in the time I left the game? On my previous account (late 2016) there were a lot of Level 70s who put ran Ponti in Shade teams, and I used to run him until around Level 38 when I managed to 3-Star and fully Ascend Bovus.
    I started playing around January (this year), and Ponti has pretty much always signified a free win for me, so I guess that's a "yes". There still are a lot of people who run Ponti, and I am very grateful to them for the free honor/tower floor energy.

    Don't get me wrong, Ponti can hit hard, but he's made out of tissue paper. Once he's in skeleton form he's not going to be doing anything significant, and will usually die to incidental damage. He certainly won't last long enough to get his flesh back.

    ---

    When I was levelling up I didn't look to building one or two teams, but a core of heroes who could be swapped in as needed. It's tempting to look for a one-size-fits-all team, but the reality is that PvP and PvE will pull you in separate directions. Even when you complete as much PvE as you care to, you won't use the same team attacking each time. Say I'm going up against a beast team; I will probably field Balog and Drakk, as they will pump out a ton of damage while crippling the enemy team. If I'm going up against a barb team, Balog and Drakk get to sit in town; I'll need Goretusk and Ferno to mitigate as much damage as possible to stand a chance.

    I think Schnuppe has the right of it, and you should focus on the Shade-Zomm core. It does the best job of fielding a team for any purpose.

    - Campaign: if you can keep Zomm safe, you can clear pretty much any dungeon, although some might turn out to be more of a slog.

    - Defense: Shade/Balog/Drakk/Zomm is a very respectable defense. Even an unascended Balog with no Drakk can mess up an attacker's plan, area of effect silence is an amazing ability even when characters have epics. As Schnuppe said, get Shade fully ascended ASAP; this will help you a lot against low level freeze teams, which you are otherwise vulnerable to. To be honest, if your Drakk is unimpressive, chuck in Grog instead. All of his abilities are amazing stand-alone, and runed offensively he will cause the enemy problems as a Zomminion, too. At level 35, any attacker is going to have a very hard time working around aoe silence, aoe slow, aoe -crit, disease, and if you have the luxury of ascending Grog easily, bonus defense and a delayed aoe freeze.

    Edit: you know, on reflection, Shade/Balog/Grog/Zomm sounds better than having Shade/Balog/Drakk/Zomm with an unascended Drakk.

    - Attack: Shade brings the short term killing power while Zomm is plan B. You can tailor the rest of your team to the enemy's defense. Are they susceptible to freezes? Even a one-star Goretusk can freeze the first enemy to move, so that Grog can deliver Strike. Are they a single element team? The non-dark heroes on your team can be drawn from the countering element.

    - Tower: I started clearing the tower reliably at your level. In my case I had a fully ascended Goretusk to escort me through, in yours you have Zomm (who I would have given an arm and a leg for). In case you don't know, any Zomminions that survive a floor get revived for future floors. If you can swing it so that the last hero to move is the hero before Zomm, Zomm will revive any of your currently dead and present heroes when the chest lands. You might want to dust Emily off, so that she can revive Zomm in case of catastrophe.

    - Future proof: there's a new light hero on the way, coming in a few weeks. Chances are that like Solaris + Goretusk, or Drakk + Balog, or Ferno + Agnon, the light hero will synergize extremely well with one hero in particular, and that Shade + Zomm + (light hero duo) will be a very respectable team. You might want to save your gems for this.


  • RaymondF wrote: »
    So currently, I've thought of five possible Defenses right now with my limited resources (My Goretusk is 1-Star, Agnon is 2-Star only) after seeing all these posts. And now that I've finally saved up 2700 Gems, I can try and get a few more Heroes and Hero tokens now.

    We need the newer heroes to be implemented for collection besides random daily quest/free hero token events and random portal pulls. SO many new heroes are meta and the people there for the events are fine but there are other people who are missing out on having a good time in PVP because certain must have heroes are nearly unlockable as of now. Agnon could become a permanent member of the tower shop since he's a gargoyle and GT could become champion loot for Kang Kung's chapter. Drakk could come from the new Jungle dungeons. @Joel there is no reason people who missed events should lose out on good PVP potential.
  • DwogDwog Member
    i remember hearing i that zomminion stats r linked to zomms but then i do remember that yesterday when my bramble died and was reserected as a zomminion im pretty sure that the shocking touch rune i have on bramble was effecting the zomminion so i dont reallly know
  • danacdanac Member
    minins runes/stats are from the hero it replaces, except when the hero is removed, for example by hopper.

    then it's off zomm.
  • Ohh so you want body removal with Zomm.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 9
    Ohh so you want body removal with Zomm.
    I dunno, sounds like a way to make sure the entire team has a zillion health and defense but no attack. Zomm vs Zomm battles are horrible grinds.
  • Stinky wrote: »
    Ohh so you want body removal with Zomm.
    I dunno, sounds like a way to make sure the entire team has a zillion health and defense but no attack. Zomm vs Zomm battles are horrible grinds.

    Especially if they have tank Zomminions. >.<
  • they should change ponty, his animate dead passive doesn't fit zomm's from the grave ability, that's sad
  • I don't think both undead legendaries are meant to be on the same team. Ponti is geared towards a more caster oriented team (so his undead passive should change, maybe making ally casters undead so they can't have some debuffs) and his passive is pretty good.
  • DevilJhonsDevilJhons Member
    edited June 10
    I agree with you, probably, ponty as legendary should be leader of other caster team, with total rework. But for now, his 30%+ atck and def buff so sweet for undead. Also his skeletal form, all fit zomm, except animate dead.
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