Skills like Augustus' Spread the Wealth and Julius' Well Rested need changes!

JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
With healing being nerfed (and then buffed again, but still and overall nerf compared to the original system), passive skills that require a hero to be at full health are ridiculously hard to trigger. Not to mention, all these new heroes and hero reworks seem to enjoy adding abilities that do minimal amounts of splash damage.

I think a simple fix would be to just make such skills work at 75% Health or above, but you know what would be even cooler? Making these types of passives work like reverse Savage Fury's! The more health the hero has, the stronger the skill!

For example, Julius would get a 1.25x boost to his damage when at at least 20% Health, and for every 10% more Health he has, this boost is increased by +0.25x! Or for Augustus, he heals all allies a tiny bit each turn as long as he's above 40% Health, but the healing gets stronger and stronger the more Health he has!

Oh, also, can Augustus' 'Lay on Hands' skill be changed to function like Dagrund's Energy Rune? That is, if he uses it on someone else, he still can be healed and cleansed by it? Obviously casting it on himself would make it heal even more, which could actually be used in your benefit if his Spread the Wealth passive is changed to work like I described!

Comments

  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Oh, and one more side comment, can Emily's Cleansing Wave please be changed to Cleanse BEFORE healing?
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 11
    Oh no!
    Post edited by Stinky on
  • StinkyStinky Member
    I always thought Augustus' Spread The Wealth seemed a little odd, flavour-wise. His background text tells us he's a "champion of truth and justice, defender of the innocent". He looks every part the paladin, too, a front-line fighter who wields divine power. And yet...and yet...to play him "properly", he should really be hiding behind other people, to avoid taking damage. To me, that sounds more like something a selfish character would have, not a true-blooded warrior. Someone might consider renaming Share The Wealth and giving it to some cowardly little wretch, even. Oh, and fire magic can have a healing component to it too, in the form of cauterizing wounds. Just, y'know, throwing that out there, I'm not suggesting anything at all, ha ha.

    Don't get me wrong, I think your comments are spot-on, I just wish Augustus was more than another healer to be babysat. As it is, between Undead Avenger and Vigilence, Hansuke and Executum feel more like a righteous warriors than Augustus does. It's not as bad as vanilla World of Warcraft, which had paladins wearing cloth items and sitting at the back spamming healing spells on the tank so the "real" classes could do their job, but still. (I guess that experience has scarred me a wee bit.)

    Off the top of my head, here are some examples of traits a paladin could have that would be more befitting of a holy warrior, in my opinion. Let me be clear in that I'm not asking Augustus to get ALL of these. I'm brainstorming because I find it fun, if I'm honest with you.

    ___
    Martyrdom
    With his dying breath, Augustus calls upon the Light one last time; not to save himself, but to commit one final act of altruism before being taken to the Elysium Fields.
    Leo already has the res-other mechanic, so Augustus' ultimate blessing could be to:

    1) boost the defense of his allies, since Team Light doesn't have a character that offers DR, and Alex has had his rework now;
    2) remove Disease, Wound, and -Heal (from Yorrick's Marked For Death debuff) from allies;
    3) if any of those allies are sitting at less than half health, heal them to 50% of their HP.

    The synergy with Leo and Emily is obvious. On the face of it, you could argue that there's anti-synergy with Alex in any damage reduction ability, but Alex's new passive three-turn damage reflection is only good if the team as a whole can stay alive to make use of it!

    ___
    Pillar of Strength
    This man will shoulder everyone's burden. All he asks for is the opportunity.
    At the start of his turn, Augustus automatically redirects all debuffs on team members to himself. In addition, Augustus has a Vigil buff that cannot be Purged while he is alive.

    How does this work mechanically? Well, when his turn rolls around. Augustus effectively Cleanses his allies, while casting the debuff(s) on himself. This does mean that he cannot remove certain effects, notably Ferno's -attack debuff, but most things (Disease, Poison, Burn, Wildfire, Wound, Shock, Paralysis, Frozen, Cyrosleep, etc.) will be transferred to Augustus instead. In the case of Shade's Spirit Link, Shade recasts Spirit Link on Augustus (for free) automatically if Spirit Link is active on one of Augustus' allies.

    ___
    Selflessness
    He would not even consider saving himself, but for anyone else he is eager to heal the slightest of scratches.
    Augustus has what is effectively a special form of Lifesteal: when he does damage, he heals everyone on his team except himself for the total damage done, split over his teammates.

    This allows Augustus to be runed as a damage dealer, instead of the usual trap in games for fighting classes with healing abilities: ending up as a Jack-of-all-trades. That's normally a useless niche in party-based RPGs because teams are built from specialists, not all-rounders.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 11
    This post went through after all.
    Post edited by Stinky on
  • Stinky wrote: »
    I think Augustus' Spread The Wealth seems a little odd, flavour-wise. His background text tells us he's a "champion of truth and justice, defender of the innocent". He looks every part the paladin, too, a front-line fighter who wields divine power. And yet...and yet...to play him "properly", he should really be hiding behind other people, to avoid taking damage. To me, that sounds more like something a selfish character would have, not a true-blooded warrior. Someone might consider renaming Share The Wealth and giving it to some cowardly little wretch, even. Someone you might call "impish". Oh, and fire magic can have a healing component to it too, in the form of cauterizing wounds. Just, y'know, throwing that out there, I'm not suggesting anything at all, ha ha.

    Don't get me wrong, I think your comments are spot-on, I just wish Augustus was more than another healer to be babysat. As it is, between Undead Avenger and Vigilence, Hansuke and Executum feel more like righteous warriors than Augustus does. It's not as bad as vanilla World of Warcraft, which had paladins wearing cloth items and sitting at the back spamming healing spells on the tank so the "real" classes could do their job, but still. (I guess that experience has scarred me a wee bit.)

    Off the top of my head, here are some examples of traits a paladin could have that would be more befitting of a holy warrior, in my opinion. Let me be clear in that I'm not asking Augustus to get ALL of these. I'm brainstorming because I find it fun, if I'm honest with you.


    Martyrdom
    With his dying breath, Augustus calls upon the Light one last time; not to save himself, but to commit one final act of altruism before being taken to the Elysium Fields.
    Leo already has the res-other mechanic, so Augustus' ultimate blessing could be to:

    1) boost the defense of his allies, since Team Light doesn't have a character that offers DR, and Alex has had his rework now;
    2) remove Disease, Wound, and -Heal (from Yorrick's Marked For Death debuff) from allies;
    3) if any of those allies are sitting at less than half health, heal them to 50% of their HP.

    The synergy with Leo and Emily is obvious. On the face of it, you could argue that there's anti-synergy with Alex in any damage reduction ability, but Alex's new passive three-turn damage reflection is only good if the team as a whole can stay alive to make use of it!


    Pillar of Strength
    This man will shoulder everyone's burden. All he asks for is the opportunity.
    At the start of his turn, Augustus automatically redirects all debuffs on team members to himself. In addition, Augustus has a Vigil buff that cannot be Purged while he is alive.

    How does this work mechanically? Well, when his turn rolls around, Augustus effectively Cleanses his allies, then casts the debuff(s) on himself. This does mean that he cannot remove certain effects, notably Ferno's -attack debuff, but most things (Disease, Poison, Burn, Wildfire, Wound, Shock, Paralysis, Frozen, Cyrosleep, etc.) will be transferred to Augustus instead. In the case of Shade's Spirit Link, Shade recasts Spirit Link on Augustus (for free) automatically if Spirit Link is active on one of Augustus' allies.


    Selflessness
    He would not even consider saving himself, but for anyone else he is eager to heal the slightest of scratches.
    Augustus has what is effectively a special form of Lifesteal: when he does damage, he heals everyone on his team except himself for the total damage done, split over his teammates.

    This allows Augustus to be runed as a damage dealer, instead of the usual trap in games for fighting classes with healing abilities: ending up as a Jack-of-all-trades. That's normally a useless niche in party-based RPGs because teams are built from specialists, not all-rounders.

    I like where this is going, maybe give him a passive called vigilance which will double da,age he deals for each debuff on him,

    smite feels more like a priest thing so let's replace it with divine verdict which will judge a character, purging and cleansing the target, if the target is undead,monster, or demon then it will smite it dealing massive damage, if it's a goblin then it will automatically run away, anything else will be healed a lot, gain an aegis shield and 1 energy for each buff purged with holy light.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Stinky wrote: »
    I think Augustus' Spread The Wealth seems a little odd, flavour-wise. His background text tells us he's a "champion of truth and justice, defender of the innocent". He looks every part the paladin, too, a front-line fighter who wields divine power. And yet...and yet...to play him "properly", he should really be hiding behind other people, to avoid taking damage. To me, that sounds more like something a selfish character would have, not a true-blooded warrior. Someone might consider renaming Share The Wealth and giving it to some cowardly little wretch, even. Someone you might call "impish". Oh, and fire magic can have a healing component to it too, in the form of cauterizing wounds. Just, y'know, throwing that out there, I'm not suggesting anything at all, ha ha.

    Don't get me wrong, I think your comments are spot-on, I just wish Augustus was more than another healer to be babysat. As it is, between Undead Avenger and Vigilence, Hansuke and Executum feel more like righteous warriors than Augustus does. It's not as bad as vanilla World of Warcraft, which had paladins wearing cloth items and sitting at the back spamming healing spells on the tank so the "real" classes could do their job, but still. (I guess that experience has scarred me a wee bit.)

    Off the top of my head, here are some examples of traits a paladin could have that would be more befitting of a holy warrior, in my opinion. Let me be clear in that I'm not asking Augustus to get ALL of these. I'm brainstorming because I find it fun, if I'm honest with you.


    Martyrdom
    With his dying breath, Augustus calls upon the Light one last time; not to save himself, but to commit one final act of altruism before being taken to the Elysium Fields.
    Leo already has the res-other mechanic, so Augustus' ultimate blessing could be to:

    1) boost the defense of his allies, since Team Light doesn't have a character that offers DR, and Alex has had his rework now;
    2) remove Disease, Wound, and -Heal (from Yorrick's Marked For Death debuff) from allies;
    3) if any of those allies are sitting at less than half health, heal them to 50% of their HP.

    The synergy with Leo and Emily is obvious. On the face of it, you could argue that there's anti-synergy with Alex in any damage reduction ability, but Alex's new passive three-turn damage reflection is only good if the team as a whole can stay alive to make use of it!


    Pillar of Strength
    This man will shoulder everyone's burden. All he asks for is the opportunity.
    At the start of his turn, Augustus automatically redirects all debuffs on team members to himself. In addition, Augustus has a Vigil buff that cannot be Purged while he is alive.

    How does this work mechanically? Well, when his turn rolls around, Augustus effectively Cleanses his allies, then casts the debuff(s) on himself. This does mean that he cannot remove certain effects, notably Ferno's -attack debuff, but most things (Disease, Poison, Burn, Wildfire, Wound, Shock, Paralysis, Frozen, Cyrosleep, etc.) will be transferred to Augustus instead. In the case of Shade's Spirit Link, Shade recasts Spirit Link on Augustus (for free) automatically if Spirit Link is active on one of Augustus' allies.


    Selflessness
    He would not even consider saving himself, but for anyone else he is eager to heal the slightest of scratches.
    Augustus has what is effectively a special form of Lifesteal: when he does damage, he heals everyone on his team except himself for the total damage done, split over his teammates.

    This allows Augustus to be runed as a damage dealer, instead of the usual trap in games for fighting classes with healing abilities: ending up as a Jack-of-all-trades. That's normally a useless niche in party-based RPGs because teams are built from specialists, not all-rounders.

    I like where this is going, maybe give him a passive called vigilance which will double da,age he deals for each debuff on him,

    smite feels more like a priest thing so let's replace it with divine verdict which will judge a character, purging and cleansing the target, if the target is undead,monster, or demon then it will smite it dealing massive damage, if it's a goblin then it will automatically run away, anything else will be healed a lot, gain an aegis shield and 1 energy for each buff purged with holy light.

    Pretty sure Demons, Goblins, and monsters don't need nerfs. :P
  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    Agreed these passives don't really work.

    A tank that invites opponents to hit him, but needs to be at full health to get his (minimal) passive boost? That was always badly thought out.

    Spread the wealth maybe not so bad if you can spare a healer rune for Augustus, but he does need to hide behind a tank mostly and that doesn't seem terribly heroic for the one true Paladin in the game.

  • RaymondFRaymondF Member
    Stinky wrote: »
    Selflessness
    He would not even consider saving himself, but for anyone else he is eager to heal the slightest of scratches.
    Augustus has what is effectively a special form of Lifesteal: when he does damage, he heals everyone on his team except himself for the total damage done, split over his teammates.

    This allows Augustus to be runed as a damage dealer, instead of the usual trap in games for fighting classes with healing abilities: ending up as a Jack-of-all-trades. That's normally a useless niche in party-based RPGs because teams are built from specialists, not all-rounders.

    Fill him up with Vampiric Runes and you get the ultimate Healer.

    Lich Paladin Augustus shall rise from the depths of those exiled from Paladin School, and before long, he won't be satisfied any longer bleeding out the small fry for "justice".
    Member of Hooligan Resort. Victim of timezone troubles.

    Level: 41
    Fav. Heroes: Hansuke, Masuta Kira
  • Stinky wrote: »
    I think Augustus' Spread The Wealth seems a little odd, flavour-wise. His background text tells us he's a "champion of truth and justice, defender of the innocent". He looks every part the paladin, too, a front-line fighter who wields divine power. And yet...and yet...to play him "properly", he should really be hiding behind other people, to avoid taking damage. To me, that sounds more like something a selfish character would have, not a true-blooded warrior. Someone might consider renaming Share The Wealth and giving it to some cowardly little wretch, even. Someone you might call "impish". Oh, and fire magic can have a healing component to it too, in the form of cauterizing wounds. Just, y'know, throwing that out there, I'm not suggesting anything at all, ha ha.

    Don't get me wrong, I think your comments are spot-on, I just wish Augustus was more than another healer to be babysat. As it is, between Undead Avenger and Vigilence, Hansuke and Executum feel more like righteous warriors than Augustus does. It's not as bad as vanilla World of Warcraft, which had paladins wearing cloth items and sitting at the back spamming healing spells on the tank so the "real" classes could do their job, but still. (I guess that experience has scarred me a wee bit.)

    Off the top of my head, here are some examples of traits a paladin could have that would be more befitting of a holy warrior, in my opinion. Let me be clear in that I'm not asking Augustus to get ALL of these. I'm brainstorming because I find it fun, if I'm honest with you.


    Martyrdom
    With his dying breath, Augustus calls upon the Light one last time; not to save himself, but to commit one final act of altruism before being taken to the Elysium Fields.
    Leo already has the res-other mechanic, so Augustus' ultimate blessing could be to:

    1) boost the defense of his allies, since Team Light doesn't have a character that offers DR, and Alex has had his rework now;
    2) remove Disease, Wound, and -Heal (from Yorrick's Marked For Death debuff) from allies;
    3) if any of those allies are sitting at less than half health, heal them to 50% of their HP.

    The synergy with Leo and Emily is obvious. On the face of it, you could argue that there's anti-synergy with Alex in any damage reduction ability, but Alex's new passive three-turn damage reflection is only good if the team as a whole can stay alive to make use of it!


    Pillar of Strength
    This man will shoulder everyone's burden. All he asks for is the opportunity.
    At the start of his turn, Augustus automatically redirects all debuffs on team members to himself. In addition, Augustus has a Vigil buff that cannot be Purged while he is alive.

    How does this work mechanically? Well, when his turn rolls around, Augustus effectively Cleanses his allies, then casts the debuff(s) on himself. This does mean that he cannot remove certain effects, notably Ferno's -attack debuff, but most things (Disease, Poison, Burn, Wildfire, Wound, Shock, Paralysis, Frozen, Cyrosleep, etc.) will be transferred to Augustus instead. In the case of Shade's Spirit Link, Shade recasts Spirit Link on Augustus (for free) automatically if Spirit Link is active on one of Augustus' allies.


    Selflessness
    He would not even consider saving himself, but for anyone else he is eager to heal the slightest of scratches.
    Augustus has what is effectively a special form of Lifesteal: when he does damage, he heals everyone on his team except himself for the total damage done, split over his teammates.

    This allows Augustus to be runed as a damage dealer, instead of the usual trap in games for fighting classes with healing abilities: ending up as a Jack-of-all-trades. That's normally a useless niche in party-based RPGs because teams are built from specialists, not all-rounders.

    I like where this is going, maybe give him a passive called vigilance which will double da,age he deals for each debuff on him,

    smite feels more like a priest thing so let's replace it with divine verdict which will judge a character, purging and cleansing the target, if the target is undead,monster, or demon then it will smite it dealing massive damage, if it's a goblin then it will automatically run away, anything else will be healed a lot, gain an aegis shield and 1 energy for each buff purged with holy light.

    Pretty sure Demons, Goblins, and monsters don't need nerfs. :P

    I know, but I thought it would be a judgement, and goblins would be cowardess and run away, undead seem evil, demons obviously, monsters would probably get judgement, also this is just brainstorming, I just thought that there could be some ability that feels more palladiny, smite deals increased damage to demons so instead this would deal damage to demons.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Yeah... I think instantly making an enemy run away would be crazy, basically a ones shot body purge in everything but the tower. Most undeads are already dark and take bonus damage from light, demons should take bonus damage from angels. I kinda wished Monsters and beasts were even enemies like how Gobs hate Dwarves, Demons hate Angels, and beasts would hate monsters. They would be effective at countering eachother.
  • Yeah... I think instantly making an enemy run away would be crazy, basically a ones shot body purge in everything but the tower. Most undeads are already dark and take bonus damage from light, demons should take bonus damage from angels. I kinda wished Monsters and beasts were even enemies like how Gobs hate Dwarves, Demons hate Angels, and beasts would hate monsters. They would be effective at countering eachother.

    but Paladins hate everyone because they think they are the only perfect beings.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Yeah... I think instantly making an enemy run away would be crazy, basically a ones shot body purge in everything but the tower. Most undeads are already dark and take bonus damage from light, demons should take bonus damage from angels. I kinda wished Monsters and beasts were even enemies like how Gobs hate Dwarves, Demons hate Angels, and beasts would hate monsters. They would be effective at countering eachother.

    but Paladins hate everyone because they think they are the only perfect beings.

    That depends who makes the paladin. The stories I've heard, they've been arrogant but put allies lives ahead of their own.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah... I think instantly making an enemy run away would be crazy, basically a ones shot body purge in everything but the tower. Most undeads are already dark and take bonus damage from light, demons should take bonus damage from angels. I kinda wished Monsters and beasts were even enemies like how Gobs hate Dwarves, Demons hate Angels, and beasts would hate monsters. They would be effective at countering eachother.

    but Paladins hate everyone because they think they are the only perfect beings.

    I don’t see Augustus as hating anything that much besides Demons.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Being indifferent to Monsters and Undead though, I can understand. I think he might even have some sympathy for the Undead, since Emily can resurrect, and being Undead is almost the same thing. I think he also would realize that most of the Undead were brought back against their will by the Lich.

    However, that said, I think he should have synergy with Light heroes. One suggestion I can think of would be to keep his Spread the Wealth how it is, but make it heal Light allies every turn no matter what his Health is at.
  • Maybe if he has taunt, every light ally decreases the damage taken (in a form similar to mammoth guard) by 15 percent to a max of 45.
  • Being indifferent to Monsters and Undead though, I can understand. I think he might even have some sympathy for the Undead, since Emily can resurrect, and being Undead is almost the same thing. I think he also would realize that most of the Undead were brought back against their will by the Lich.

    However, that said, I think he should have synergy with Light heroes. One suggestion I can think of would be to keep his Spread the Wealth how it is, but make it heal Light allies every turn no matter what his Health is at.

    I guess your right, but he would see them as a threat most likely, I mean goblins cheats steal,lie basically the opposite of a palladin, demons Need no explanation, monsters he would also see as a threat, I admit though he wouldn't really work with monsters then... Maybe it should just deal lots of damage to Target enemy increasing damage they take applying fear, we all hate being judged so they would too, and on allies it would heal them giving them energy for each buff they have?
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • I like the energy per buff idea. It's almost like friendly sucker punch.
  • I like the energy per buff idea. It's almost like friendly sucker punch.

    One that will actually bring an impact... Maybe sucker punch should also be impacted by buffs/passive buffs!!
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • edited May 25
    I like the energy per buff idea. It's almost like friendly sucker punch.

    One that will actually bring an impact... Maybe sucker punch should also be impacted by buffs/passive buffs!!

    I just want a dark bite sucker punch.... We could hit max damage with this by summoning Hopper, Lupina, Yorick, Shade, Abby, Nub, Yoko, and some other debuffs and totally nuking the enemy.
  • I like the energy per buff idea. It's almost like friendly sucker punch.

    One that will actually bring an impact... Maybe sucker punch should also be impacted by buffs/passive buffs!!

    I just want a dark bite sucker punch.... We could hit max damage with this by summoning Hopper, Lupina, Yorick, Shade, Abby, Nub, Yoko, and some other debuffs and totally nuking the enemy.

    Dark bite?? You mean making sucker punch sucker slam?
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • It's a bite attack so it gains damage from Hopper's meat icon debuff but it also scales according to suckers punch.
  • Idk if pignus is that kind of beast, he only does it if he is invested in the relation ship...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • Not for Pignius. Just a new dark hero that has another sucker punch-esque ability on top of the two we have currently.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 11
    This post went through after all.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited June 11
    Alright, well, my post on May 25th about Augustus kept getting eaten by the forums, but it seems that they weren't lost to the void - they ALL arrived today. I would delete the obsolete posts but, well, I can't. So I apologize for the spam, and please don't kill me, it was an honest mistake guv.
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