Players leaving at a all-time high and major guilds folding or are forced to merge.

I'm making this post to address how many players are leaving this game. How player retention in guilds is abysmal, and how recruiting for guilds are at a all time low.
We have been seeing long time guilds folding, top guilds forced to merge to stay competitive.
And just a overall feel of unease and dissatisfaction with the game as a whole.
Why?
I feel it's a issue of lack of motivation. There are several bugs, events have been fairly boring also. It's more than that though. It's just lack of incentive, why PvP? Why go hard in events? Why build my roster?
For me, and from the feedback I get it's a issue of rewards.
Nothing is rare in DB, hardcore gamers want something rare. Either being a rune, a hero, or a exclusive title. We have none of that. There is almost no reason to join a guild. The guilds drive this game, they are losing players and new players have no incentive to seek them out.
I strongly feel they need to increase rewards and offer exclusive hero tokens to guilds, to PvP and to PvE.
Something rare that players need to work to get.
Give them incentive to want to play.
Examples.
Make 4 heros that are powerful but the only way to get them is through time and hard work.
Hero A- only available through weekly guild rewards, takes a long time to star. Months to 6* and guilds that finish at the top threshold get a fundamentally higher amount.
Hero B- only through PvP, available in the honor shop but players in the boss 100 recieve a fundamentally higher amount.
Hero C- guild games only.
Hero D- through tower and PvE boards, give a reason to finish the tower and complete all the boards.
I want to keep this thread going as I have other ideas to keep players happy and also have higher player retention. I also want to hear from the community about this.
I see so many players peaking early, getting burned out or bored, then just quit and leave.
Lets try to solve the issue before the game dies.
GM of The Potato Army
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Comments

  • They did have exclusive heroes: Aria, ember, Lupina, Nimriel and guild games exclusive Daeris. Then the powers that be made all these heroes available for $, portal, events and shops.

    I’d love exclusive heroes. I just don’t think DB can commit.
  • ZWendyZWendy Member
    I actually enjoyed collecting stars for heroes.
    Not just getting the hero to 6 stars in 15 days with the calendar event.
    You have that hero, all finished, in a few days, and then there's nothing to work for.

    A new tower hero would be great also.
    Give me a reason to fight all those barbarian teams.
    DB Player since 10.11.2015
    The Tatar Squad
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    Who would want to leave? They treat me like a VIP.
  • Oracle9Oracle9 Member
    Lol, ok let's get some ideas posted in here. That way we can try to submit them to the devs.
    Tell me what would motivate and inspire you to play more.
    GM of The Potato Army
  • Elite runes for Top 10 in Boss 100 would be cool
    Contact me on Line chat ID: ninjanurse00
  • Artu12_Artu12_ Member
    New runes for boss100, or even a better gem payout system in pvp (more similar to the old one) would be perfect. I'm still there waiting for a power blue rune/bulwark red rune or new op 4th stats, like dmg penetration or barbs dmg.
  • Oracle9Oracle9 Member
    Yes the boss 100 runes have been very lackluster and repeated frequently. I suggested having guardian and survivor runes in the boss 100. People would play for them and they would not disrupt the game meta or economy because they already exist. Also offer a Elite version for the winner or the top 10. I know people would play quite hard for a elite guardian rune.
    GM of The Potato Army
  • gmungmun Member
    All good points. I would just add that the current event is a prime example. We have a 17 day event with literally nothing to spend out tickets on except a gold key. How many people will leave due to 17 days of pure boredom? Why PvP these runes haven't been updated in 18 months?

    Additionally all skill has been removed from guild competitions by selling boosts etc. And all the rest are portal pull events. Even calling the H4HOPPER events an "event" is insulting.
    Gmun
  • Oracle9Oracle9 Member
    Excellent example Gmun. This game has some great things going for it. The combat system is complex and has diversity no other app game available has. It's actually great. The new boss mode boards are rich in color and have a really nice feel to them.
    What the game lacks right now is a incentive to actually do them, PvP or PvE.
    I really want to suggest to the devs ways that we can fix this without costing them immense time and money. Quick easy fixes are the most likely to be implemented, and rewards seem quite easy to do from my standpoint. Having the finance team approve them may be a different story. The benefits would be immense though. We have nothing to look forward to.
    Even the new boss mode, unless you just want to do it for fun. There is really no major incentive to complete it. Where everyone should be trying to complete it every day. The reason they are not is because there is no carrot at the end of the stick. We need more incentive to play. You give players this incentive and I strongly feel there will be less complaints, mainly because the reward will make them overlook many of the flaws.
    GM of The Potato Army
  • I'm okay with any of the ideas of Oracle's or anything to change us bleeding players more than we can draw them in. There is no reason to be in a guild unless you love the ball and chain that is your daily crowns. As one of the recruiters for the largest guild families in the game please hear us... we have WAITLISTS TO LEAVE... not join. This isn't the DB I started playing.
  • gmun wrote: »
    All good points. I would just add that the current event is a prime example. We have a 17 day event with literally nothing to spend out tickets on except a gold key. How many people will leave due to 17 days of pure boredom?


    Don't forget every door will be opened twice, with gold keys for 3 (hopefully with nice runes) and silver for the rest (ideally) for maximum Deadeye tokens and no money spent.

    They give you 1 gold and 1 silver to start. That's 26 doors left.

    You can buy one gold key with gems and one with 40,000 tickets. 24 left.

    24 x 8000 = 192,000 + 40,000 for the gold key = 232,000 tickets required. About 16,500 a day for 14 days. I believe you actually get at least one extra day, so you can go a tad slower, unless you miss a day's play.

    So a little more than one gold key to usefully buy.
  • DaemoniaDaemonia Member
    edited June 22
    DB won't ever commit to those improvements. The summit is something that makes you feel heard, just like a politician on tour. But in the end they only want to line their pockets.

    What had been said about Daeris, Aria, Ember and other things, just like those Deadeye events, everything is boostable with $. Not a grain of skill needed, just happening to play this game with a vast income makes everything possible and winnable.

    Why change that as a company? Those calendar events are great revenue and it works. I bet there are already enough elite runed 6* Deadeyes out there.
    The ability of getting 2 gold keys with those events and no more without pulling the credit card is a prime example of the road this game has been taking for a long time now.

    As long as the devs don't block the Big Sales boss behind them and unite for actually a game where one can tell player X stands out because of a certain hero level or whatnot, the Big Sale will go on and the whales will keep winning. And it's those that bring in the cash for Big Fish, not the FTP or non-VIP 10 people. (VIP 10's who don't spend hundreds a month by default excluded ofc, I do refer to i.e. those heroic portal event "winners").
  • DaemoniaDaemonia Member
    edited June 22
    .
  • SyavanSyavan Member
    Daemonia wrote: »
    DB won't ever commit to those improvements. The summit is something that makes you feel heard, just like a politician on tour. But in the end they only want to line their pockets.

    What had been said about Daeris, Aria, Ember and other things, just like those Deadeye events, everything is boostable with $. Not a grain of skill needed, just happening to play this game with a vast income makes everything possible and winnable.

    Why change that as a company? Those calendar events are great revenue and it works. I bet there are already enough elite runed 6* Deadeyes out there.

    As long as the devs don't block the Big Sales boss behind them and unite for actually a game where one can tell player X stands out because of a certain hero level or whatnot, the Big Sale will go on and the whales will keep winning. And it's those that bring in the cash for Big Fish, not the FTP or non-VIP 10 people. (VIP 10's who don't spend hundreds a month by default excluded ofc, I do refer to i.e. those heroic portal event "winners").

    That's a bit pessimistic. I enjoy the game despite being f2p and a few improvements along the lines of the suggestions above would be great. I've rarely felt like I couldn't compete against whales; they just get new heroes and reach end game faster.

    I think an exclusive hero for boss mode, similar to challenge mode would be nice. It doesn't have to be an amazing top tier hero imo. Make the dungeons required to be manually run for tokens, and that would increase the games longevity for maxed players with more value and importance to potions which are currently hoarded.

    Even if the incentive doesn't strengthen your roster overall, it could still provide the feeling of accomplishment we look for in games. After all, many see legendary conqueror as a top goal despite being just a title and I still see value in achieving that.
  • Titles need to be reworked. They should provide some benefit to the bearer and be specific to the title.

    Extra honor in PvP, extra xp in pve, extra cups in ToP, heroes start pve with aegis shield, 5 extra gems for completing daily quests, casters with 20% chance to steal buff in pve, tanks with def buff in pve, etc.

    Not all titles necessarily need to provide a benefit, but if available in shop during events they should.

    If you’re expecting players to give up a superior rune for a title, make it worthwhile.
  • I'm the first one to say something needs to be done..... the problem is most of these suggestions are still just a rich get richer, strong get stronger proposition. When finishing at the top significantly increases power and is linked in part to ability to spend money as PvP is and many of the tournaments the game has is then you get locked in a cycle where no one new and no one without significant money to spend can break in. The top players in PvP get better runes which makes them better at PvP which makes it easier for them to out-compete the other players next week which makes them stronger which makes it even easier to out-compete the other players next week etc etc etc.

    The way to fix this is not to have a strict reward by ranking but to go back to what they used to have at the start, higher awards by reaching a certain level and this time don't make it impossible to reach the levels without significant investment. Again its a tough balance too easy and everyone moves up too fast, too hard and only the spenders move up. Add to this that players want rewards for coming out on top and for the most part titles don't seem good enough for them for that win. Also add to this that its a freemium game and the company wants to make money and if they don't none of this will matter anyway. It's a difficult balance.

    I suggest that the rank in PvP rather than the boss 100 list should determine more of the reward in terms of things that let you PvP better i.e. the runes. And the boss 100 should be where you earn points toward unique things like titles and skins which don't actually affect play. Points rather than just awarding them because it still shouldn't just be about who comes out on top a given week and it can extend the longevity of the whole thing in terms of someone getting the rewards and having no reason to continue to do it.

    In terms of guilds, the terrible chat/mail systems in this game make the social aspect that guilds have in many other games useless. The fact that guilds are additive rather than cooperative (everyone contributes to a point pool in competitions instead of all working together to accomplish a goal) makes them feel less needed.
    I can no longer decide from day to day what to think of this game.... and that is frustrating
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited June 22
    Was going to write some long winded posts about overall direction, but people seem to be covering that quite nicely, so how about a list of specific suggestions, in no particular order:

    -Streaks feel too consequential in pvp. When I lose a long streak, I pretty much just quit for the day. Isn’t worth the frustration. How about a loss takes 5 or 10 matches off your streak counter instead of resetting you to 0?

    -Use epics as rewards. We’ve dealt with a few dozen epics now that are all obtained and improved exactly the same way. Any established player is able to auto run or just quickloot anything they need for epics. We instantly max any new epics released. How about a half dozen new epics, where Top X rewards in various events reward a single epic level and you get to choose which of the new epics to apply it to, with no other way to obtain or level them? This would space out the epic leveling process greatly and give people something rare to compete for.

    -Make events far more about strategy than repetition. No one enjoys “gameplay” that involves smashing a quick loot button thousands of times. Strategy and hero/skill interactions are what attracted me to this game in the first place. Those seem lacking now.

    -Meaningful PvE content. Boss Mode expansion was really cool, but was beatable within a day or two using existing resources and runes at level 70. There’s no reason to replay any of it. We waited a year+ for it, and it’s already irrelevant. It’s a crime that it could all be beaten without even leveling up.

    -Address bugs in a more timely manner. We see the same bugs for months on end to the point where we all just adapt and work around them because we know they won’t be fixed in any reasonable timeframe. That’s just unacceptable.

    -Release a bunch more “unique” runes like the caster and tank runes. This will be controversial. I know a lot of people are complaining about them. I truely believe the problem is not that they exist and radically alter gameplay. The problem is that so few of them exist. If we had a couple dozen of these types of radical change runes to choose from, it would add tons of variety to the game. Every defense you go up against could be slightly different, even if the heroes were the same. Strategy would be much more important.

    -Rewards, rewards, rewards. I’m free to play and have more superior runes than I could ever need, so I’m sure spenders are in the same boat. Problem is, game only provides enough gems to make/buy an elite rune once a month or so and still have enough to help the guild. Winning elites meanwhile requires hundreds of dollars, individually and/or as a guild. So, there’s quite literally no way to improve my roster. Being in a top 5-10 guild or spending 50 bucks on an event and walking away with another crap superior rune that will either be salvaged or put on useless bench heroes is just disheartening. There’s sooooo little reason to bother playing events or weekly pvp anymore.

    -Normalize sparkly/clickables across all maps. We’ve been running The Vault for every event that allows it for like 2 years now because crypts get so many more clickables than other dungeon types. So boring. Switch it up.
    Post edited by Skip_Holmes on
  • What on earth are you guys talking about??I can understand if you're maxed with all characters,being bored....I do agree that pvp gets boring,but for me,its only boring BECAUSE ALL TEAMS ARE ZOMM,BARB,OR SOLARIS. other than that,pvp is great.when I get variation its always fun for me wether or not I win or lose. the tower is okay for me,i only make it to floor 6/7 each time and its still a challenge cause im still building up.i still have tons of characters to unlock,and im thankful as hell they made almost all characters available through aether because I CANT AFFORD TO SPEND BIG BUCKS ON THIS GAME.oh,and guilds.i see guilds as being useful as heck.i recently got kicked out of mine because I missed a day of crowns,thats the only crappy part. I need a new guild because I really need the guild bonuses.i want to eventually build a dwarf team,and I need the free gem summon.this game offers great playability. each day I get to wake up,get free gold and potions which I really need because I want to try making a new nature team (rocky,bovus,solaris,Julius) and then ill run a couple hard mode dungeons for some aether on leonidus and some gems/story progress.ill usually be out of energy by the time I do gold/xp/evo dungeons,so then ill do my pvp (4-8 battles,win some lose some,makes it fun because of deadeye challenge(not liking deadeye so far) I tend to not like heroes from the gem portal because unless your hero is 6 stars its incredibly weak compared to normal. ill log in like 4 hours later,get some tokens for a character I wanna try in pvp,do a tower run and get my crowns,do more pvp,and maybe buy some gold or honor summons.DB is a great game that has consistant updates,new charcaters and revamps, however,i do also have a complaint or two. one. FIX BARBS i was wrecked by a barb team with 7k less power than me and all the characters were 3- 4 stars versus my almost maxed undead team. light team needs to be more viable. I understand assassins are now a thing, but beasts are wayyyyyyy to strong /barbs are wayyy to strong.i mean,other than that???fix the pvp roster (assuming its true that pvp is based off total roster power) because lower level pvp is all people that have 4 heroes fully runed and that's it.at high level you usually get a good mix of players because MOST players hate slow leveling) other than that?not really any complaints.great game considering im f2p except for 20$ I spent on gems,and dungeon boss has had way more than 20$ worth of entertainment for me,i just cant afford more.... sorry for the long post.
  • Oracle9Oracle9 Member
    edited June 22
    You guys make good points. I've always been a advocate of making good events where people want to spend to keep playing, rather than have events where people feel obligated or forced to spend to compete or help their guild.
    As far as guilds go, they are immensely helpful to people. They help with strategy, PvP, rune builds and form player bonds, most have a family feel.
    One of the main issues though is that all the top guild families use LINE to share information.
    That's one of the main reasons I'm bringing this to the forums. The Devs have no idea what we speak about in LINE, so at least here they can get a feel for the communities needs and wants.
    GM of The Potato Army
  • LocatingPK wrote: »
    What on earth are you guys talking about??...

    No offense meant, but you’re in a thread discussing the state of the end game when you aren’t actually at the end game yet. I agree with you that there’s tons of fun and lots to do when you’re still developing your roster and working on new content. But for the thousands of us with maxed rosters and nothing left to do, the fun factor falls off a cliff. We loved the game when we were at where you are currently. We’re just discussing how to get that level of interest back.
  • Oracle9Oracle9 Member
    Also guys remember this is a profit driven game. Some people have great ideas, but they are just not cost-effective to a development team. We need to ask for easy solutions or "quick fixes". Not only are they more likely to be implemented but small steps lead to miles.
    The DB team has a small staff with a limited budget.
    So if we ask for complex changes or ask for a whole new game, it's very unlikely those changes can be a option. That's why my focus for now is rewards, to make the repetitive "grinds" seem worth the time for now. Use it as a band-aid for now while they can work on more elaborate improvements.
    GM of The Potato Army
  • coneyKconeyK Member
    edited June 22
    The removal of exclusive VIP heroes is on my list too. They realized that the VIP hero wasn’t a strong enough incentive to get people to spend, and that people who would buy a new hero were already high-tier VIPs. So it became more profitable to make a hero that they’d have to spend silly amounts for, because enough people will do it.

    On the subject of the Guild Summits being disappointing, I think the players in attendance have about as much blame as the devs. There’s no real unity or good questions from the players. It’s just a hodgepodge of suggestions for how the last disaster-event could’ve been slightly better. Ask tough questions. Demand changes.

    When Drakk was first teased as the solution to Solaris, no one in the Summit said anything about how bad of an idea that was - how shameless of a meta-escalating cashgrab it was.
  • coneyKconeyK Member
    Also, material drops are heinously greedy. I shouldn’t spend 50 energy to get a single brimstone drop. There is just no excuse for this.
  • coneyK wrote: »
    Also, material drops are heinously greedy. I shouldn’t spend 50 energy to get a single brimstone drop. There is just no excuse for this.
    @coneyK
    Max out your rune inventory then all chests have a chance to drop mats. It's the best way to farm.
  • Personally, I feel like a quick fix is adding thresholds in events. Part of the issue is that it's easy to be burned out when you're farming tickets for hours and hours just so you can stay top 50 for some measly reward. If there is a threshold, there might not be as much burnout. Let's take this event for example. Max rewards are at 10 million, but people are competitive leading them to get 15 million or higher, and because there's extra pressure in a guild, the run more dungeons, and have a higher chance and burning out. If the cap is at 10 million, there isn't this contest to see who's first, it's just about winning the reward. If only 200k of your tickets count towards the guild, this might allow you to take it a bit slower and experiment, since you and your guild aren't worried about being #1. That's what goes on for the weekly tourneys, and it turns out fine.

    Obviously this wouldn't apply to GGT or GG, but for other, less competitive events, it might be nice.
    Level: 74
    Position: Officer of Evil Inc
    Favorite Hero: Ekko
    "Once you have accepted your flaws, no one can use them against you."
  • I think that getting rid of Guild Families would make the game a lot better. Seriously, I’m not joking or trying to be a jerk. I just think it would be better if each guild was on its own.
  • sirolk99sirolk99 Member
    Umm Guild Families aren't really an ingame feature per say, that's more everyone on Line. Can't really get rid of it @MaxBeamer , technically per the game they are on their own.
  • If anything, I’d be more inclined to have some sort of guild family feature in-game.
    Level: 74
    Position: Officer of Evil Inc
    Favorite Hero: Ekko
    "Once you have accepted your flaws, no one can use them against you."
  • SyavanSyavan Member
    I don't know about other top guilds, but my guild goes relatively easy on threshold events and only aims for #1 in GGT and GG @SeasideStorm .

    I would probably have quit the game a while ago if it wasn't for my guild family. I like that veteran players can share info with newer players more easily. When I started out, I struggled for a month or so just relying on ingame chat and forums to learn the game. There was a lot of outdated info and contrary opinions to sift through. Seeing how many great players are being promoted out of our lower guilds recently, I like to think we're doing something right @MaxBeamer .

    I think elite runes are a fair and balanced incentive like oracle said @Skip_Holmes . They give only a slight edge above superiors so it's still possible for upcoming players to compete. If there were exclusive epics, probably the easiest implementation would be awarding parts, and it would likely open a wide rift between the top players and everyone else. The main issue with caster runes was the randomness. Strategy requires some reliability and predictability. Casters push it past that point.
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