Preliminary Tower of Pwnage Change [2nd Change Made]

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Comments

  • GingeNinjaGingeNinja Member
    edited July 1
    Friends do not fear! I am in the middle of an ultimate tower PvP guide. It will provide rune guides, team suggestions (and hopefully one day) an analysis of every single hero.

    Edit: oh yeah. And it will be 80+ threads large
    Level 71 in the almighty Potato Army!
    Happy to share my knowledge with anyone that listens
  • danacdanac Member
    Don’t forget Ekko. I like to save him for a top floor barb team to clear out first abilities.

    I always forget ekko.
  • Short_FuseShort_Fuse Member
    edited July 2
    Thanks for the effort but i dont think any amount of guides will save most of the people failing at the top levels of the tower. I usually get wiped mostly by a barb or beast or just pretty much a single agnon 3 or more levels above me which i can´t scratch and from what i´ve read, everyone complains about pretty much the same thing.

    Its not about the team comp itself but how powerful the overlevelled defense teams get, especially when they are teams with tons of synergy like barbs or beasts equipped with defensive runes

    Whats the point of going against a barb team with a ferno or a GT that just cant freeze or burn them because of this stupid level disparity that goes on at top levels
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    danac wrote: »
    This should not be happening if you have superior runes. they can't be outgunning you.



    Hahahaha. What a dumb cat. You think they play fair. I love you attitude.
  • @Short_Fuse Well I will try my best anyway.
    Level 71 in the almighty Potato Army!
    Happy to share my knowledge with anyone that listens
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member

    Before the level cap raise I could do 10 barb teams per tower. Now that I am getting teams higher level and elite runed some of my methods no longer work, especially with +4 teams.

    You have provided some useful information in your reply. If you would care to elaborate specifically on what techniques to use against barb teams in this environment that would be must helpful. Bear in mind that I lose critical heroes quickly, so please list backup strategies and backup heroes.

    Whining about whining won't help. Specific information will. I have all heroes FA and most 6* and runed greater/superior. My roster power is around 400K+ (I think, haven't looked recently) I am ready to proceed with any additional strategies you suggest since my old methods won't work well again until I reach 80.

    My biggest problem has actually been that I lose a critical hero on a NON barb opponent, often due to one hero who appears to be invincible, for reasons I don't understand.

    Perhaps also if you shared how you rune each of your heroes it would give a better idea of when to rune defensively and when to rune offensively, and how much skill to provide each hero.

    I am willing to do a certain amount of planning, but there is a limit. I am not up for a game of chess when I play a mobile game to escape life, and I can't always afford 60-90 minutes each day for a measly 275 gems.

    I may just not be as good at DB as you. I can live with that. I'm good at plenty of other things.

    This is fair. Here's are my "good" heroes and general rune build. All are FA/6*/L71 (my max level) and their runes are almost all Superior:

    Shade (Full Epic): All Attack+Attack+Health+Dam Pen vs. Rogue or general Dam Pen
    Barbs (all 4): 4:1 Attack/Def with the exception of Balog, who has 2 def ruens (tank rune giving him taunt and a 10% dam red. rune)
    Koros: Same as Shade
    Emily (full Epic): 3:2 Attack to Def, with both Festive Runes (+1 energy, which DOES NOT WORK IN THE TOWER)
    Agnon: 4:1 attack
    GT: 2:3 attack to def (guardain and survivor rune+Vampiric)
    Ferno: 3:2 Attack to Def+health (Guardian rune + )
    Solaris: 3:2 Def to attack, including a Health Vampiric rune (10%)
    Grog (full epic): 4:1 Attack to Def

    Here are my back-up heroes: FA/6*, but with mostly Greater and maybe even a 5* legendary improved:

    Torchy (L9 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    MK (L5 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    SB(fully Epic): 4:1 attack to def
    Kai: 2:3 attack to def
    Zomm (Full epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Leo: 2:3 attack kto def

    Here are my "bait but can do some damage" heroes: they have improved runes on them, but aren't all 6* and most are in the mid 60s for levels:

    Hansuke (L11 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    Igorok (L8 epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Furnace: 4:1 attack to Def
    Therand (L5 epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Daeris: 4:1 attack to def

    I'll quote this post and explain my tower philosophy. Basically I have an "A" team of GT, Agnon, Sol Ferno, and a B team of SB, MK, Kai, Koros. I use the B team for most floors, leveraging the speed of 3 fast guys and the purging ability of SB/MK/Koros, and bring in the A team only when I absolutely have to. I'll explain in greater detail in a second. Utilizing both give me big bang for my buck.

    Also, I kept all my seasonal runes from when I was sub 50, so I have a bunch of 5* legendary improves to stick on Hansuke, etc. My Hansuke is underleveled, but 6* and has like 8000 attack and 12000 life thanks to the 6* boost. That allows him to do some big damage if he can get a hit off, etc. I'll break it down in the next post.
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    xandrew29 wrote: »

    Before the level cap raise I could do 10 barb teams per tower. Now that I am getting teams higher level and elite runed some of my methods no longer work, especially with +4 teams.

    You have provided some useful information in your reply. If you would care to elaborate specifically on what techniques to use against barb teams in this environment that would be must helpful. Bear in mind that I lose critical heroes quickly, so please list backup strategies and backup heroes.

    Whining about whining won't help. Specific information will. I have all heroes FA and most 6* and runed greater/superior. My roster power is around 400K+ (I think, haven't looked recently) I am ready to proceed with any additional strategies you suggest since my old methods won't work well again until I reach 80.

    My biggest problem has actually been that I lose a critical hero on a NON barb opponent, often due to one hero who appears to be invincible, for reasons I don't understand.

    Perhaps also if you shared how you rune each of your heroes it would give a better idea of when to rune defensively and when to rune offensively, and how much skill to provide each hero.

    I am willing to do a certain amount of planning, but there is a limit. I am not up for a game of chess when I play a mobile game to escape life, and I can't always afford 60-90 minutes each day for a measly 275 gems.

    I may just not be as good at DB as you. I can live with that. I'm good at plenty of other things.

    This is fair. Here's are my "good" heroes and general rune build. All are FA/6*/L71 (my max level) and their runes are almost all Superior:

    Shade (Full Epic): All Attack+Attack+Health+Dam Pen vs. Rogue or general Dam Pen
    Barbs (all 4): 4:1 Attack/Def with the exception of Balog, who has 2 def ruens (tank rune giving him taunt and a 10% dam red. rune)
    Koros: Same as Shade
    Emily (full Epic): 3:2 Attack to Def, with both Festive Runes (+1 energy, which DOES NOT WORK IN THE TOWER)
    Agnon: 4:1 attack
    GT: 2:3 attack to def (guardain and survivor rune+Vampiric)
    Ferno: 3:2 Attack to Def+health (Guardian rune + )
    Solaris: 3:2 Def to attack, including a Health Vampiric rune (10%)
    Grog (full epic): 4:1 Attack to Def

    Here are my back-up heroes: FA/6*, but with mostly Greater and maybe even a 5* legendary improved:

    Torchy (L9 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    MK (L5 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    SB(fully Epic): 4:1 attack to def
    Kai: 2:3 attack to def
    Zomm (Full epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Leo: 2:3 attack kto def

    Here are my "bait but can do some damage" heroes: they have improved runes on them, but aren't all 6* and most are in the mid 60s for levels:

    Hansuke (L11 Epic): 3:2 attack to Def
    Igorok (L8 epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Furnace: 4:1 attack to Def
    Therand (L5 epic): 3:2 attack to def
    Daeris: 4:1 attack to def

    I'll quote this post and explain my tower philosophy. Basically I have an "A" team of GT, Agnon, Sol Ferno, and a B team of SB, MK, Kai, Koros. I use the B team for most floors, leveraging the speed of 3 fast guys and the purging ability of SB/MK/Koros, and bring in the A team only when I absolutely have to. I'll explain in greater detail in a second. Utilizing both give me big bang for my buck.

    Also, I kept all my seasonal runes from when I was sub 50, so I have a bunch of 5* legendary improves to stick on Hansuke, etc. My Hansuke is underleveled, but 6* and has like 8000 attack and 12000 life thanks to the 6* boost. That allows him to do some big damage if he can get a hit off, etc. I'll break it down in the next post.

    Thank you for such a detailed reply. I'll save this and your next post, read them in detail and study them, and see how they compare to my own.

    My first impression is that my heroes are runed too defensively. My playstyle in games has traditionally been toward the endurance rather than outright blast power and I think that's a mistake for me here.

    Thanks again.
  • xandrew29xandrew29 Member
    Ok, so here are a few principles to keep in mind when ToPing in the current Barb meta:

    1) Barbs have 2 weaknesses: 1) Wildfire burn, which reduces their Rage to 0 and prevents Drakks' 1 round immortality from being applied, and 2) They have no natural healer, meaning any damage done to them in 1 round usually carries over.

    2) There is only 1 hero in the game that can Wildfire burn: Ferno. He is your #1 most important hero in the tower. Do not use him if there's even a 5% chance he can get killed on a non-barb floor. He also has incredible synergy with Goretusk, Solaris and Agnon. This is your best team: GT, Agnon, Solaris and Ferno. The damage reduction between GT and Ferno is incredible, Agnon allows the 3 fliers to do double damage vs. non-fliers, Solaris/GT boost each other's HP, and Ferno gives flying heroes +1 energy each turn. Oh, and Solaris can resurrect everyone if need be.

    3) Fast heroes are highly valuable in the tower. Properly applied, you can wipe entire floors without the opposing team getting a hit off by flipping the turn order in your favor.

    4) A defensive Agnon's abilities will go: Plummetting Doom, Terrorstorm, Plummeting Doom again. PD is a 1-shot kill against just about any hero, making Agnon very dangerous in the tower.

    5) A key to preserving heroes is having a resurrecting hero along for the ride: Leonidus, Solaris, Emily and Zomm can resurrect your heroes (Zomminnions become their original heroes upon completion of a tower floor if the Zomminion survives). Preserve your resurrectors at all costs.

    6) Off of #4, Hopper is extremely dangerous, as she prevents rezzers from being able to use their rez! Though Leo and Zomm also have corpse removal abilities, they're medium and slow speed; Hopper is a fast hero. Approach Hopper floors with caution.

    7) If Shade cannot Spirit Link due to you only have Constructs, Sol, Emily or another hero immune to debuffs, he will go RIGHT to Possession. If he does that, his energy order gets really screwed up and he becomes a nightmare to deal with.

    STRATEGY BREAKDOWN:

    With all of that on the table, here's how to approach a tough tower. Going to assume a tough tower has 5-6 barbarian teams, at least 3 of which are Shalog (Shade + the 3 non-Ignus Barbs) and 3 of which are right in the row. The other teams include a couple of full Beast Teams with GT and Sol, a GT, Sol, Lily, Grog Team, a Dark Team (Shade, Daeris, Agnon, Zomm or Shade, SB, Agnon Zomm). There's one random breathing room team of all Goblins (we've all faced that team at least once). There's a rogue team with SB, BD, MK and a random hero like Tsume. There's the insufferable GT, Emily, Agnon, Zomm team and a GT Emily Agnon Ferno squad as well. Yikes.

    My philosophy is to use a team that is very strong, but not my best team, on most floors: SB, MK, Kai and Koros. I preserve that "B Team" by using bait teams to absorb the 1st opposing Fast heroes special attacks. Once that hero is down to normal attacks, I send in the B team. I usually use SB's normal attack first, because if his epic triggers, he can wipe an entire floor. It's worth the risk, because I still have 2 fast heroes (MK and Kai) who can attack that next-in-speed hero if need be. All I need is for Koros to be able to use his Breath against most opponents to wipe the floor. If MK can't kill the next-speed hero, I use Kai's special to blunt any AOE damage and finish it the next round.

    If I face a Dark Team or either Selwyn/Agnon, I usually flip MK and SB once I go in for attack. MK's Death Blossom purges a buff/hit and will remove Iceblock/Graniteform, then I can follow up with my normal strategy. I save SB's 1st special for when MK is out of energy, as it also purges a buff.

    I only use enough bait heroes to suck up the first fast heroes special attacks. Even if you send a level 1 Yokozuna, the opponent's 1st hero will use whatever his special is in order. This is important, because you need as many bait teams for barbarian floors as you can get.

    There are times where my B-team makes no sense. Beast squads have too much HP and Solaris is fire immune. This is where I cautiously use my "A" team of GT, Agnon, Sol and Ferno. I use bait teams so the enemy GT is down to his Tusk Charge, and the opposing Grog has at least used his Strike. GTs are usually runed for defense, so a Yorick or a Stonefist even solo can absorb a few hits, allowing you to bleed opposing attacks with little hero cost to yourself. You use Agnon to get GT, Ferno to Grog, Solaris to use her Fire heal attack 1st round. GT should always just use his Tusk Charge on the enemy GT so his momentum is as low as possible. Next round you can use GT's charge to freeze Solaris (or kill her), then Agnon's hardened assualt to finish the opponent. Because Ferno gives your fliers extra energy each round, your Agnon will be able to use his Plummetting Doom on the very next Floor.

    Use this method and you should be using no more than 1-3 heroes/floor. If there are 5 non-barb floors, you're down, at most, 15, maybe 20 heroes. You have 50 left for 6 floors, and should have all your "good" heroes.

    So....now the Barb teams. There are 3 iterations I've seen: All 4 Barbs, 3 Barbs + Furnace and 3 Barbs +Shade. Her'es how to handle each:

    4 Barbs: Run a full 4 bait team or 1 hero + furnace. Philosophy is to get Balog to use his Cry Havoc up. Once you don't have to worry about Silence, the GT, Agnon, Solaris Ferno team comes in. GT uses his tusk charge on Ignus (benefits the least from Rage and CANNOT be wildfired). Agnon Dumps Ignus on his head. Solaris hit Ignus with a regular attack. Ferno Wildfires or Dive Bombs (Both trigger wild fire burn) on either Drakk or Balog. Clean-up round 2; with Ferno's energy boost, you'll be able to alternate between Divebomb and Wildfire every 2nd turn, so don't worry about it.

    3 Barbs + Furnace: You need to bait this team for 2 things to happen: Balog uses Cry Havoc AND Furnace uses his Stoke the Boiler. StB is a pain, because Furnace taunts and because he has Abs of Steel, he'll absorb 5 hits. Yes, you can AOE to hit the Barbs, but that raises their Rage. You may need to use 2 full bait teams of 4 heroes. don't be afraid to use your medium strength guys that have Improved runes. Once you get Furnace to use Stoke the Boiler, utilize the same strat as above, but have GT/Agnon/Sol hit Furnace instead of Ignus.

    3 Barbs + Shade: Kind of like the Furnace squad, you need to plan this out. You have 2 things you need to trigger: Cry Havoc AND Shade's Spirit Link. Problem? Cry Havoc is a Round 1 skill and Spirit Link Round 2. Remember How I said the other floors were all about preserving bait heroes for Barbarian Floors? This is the team that is the reason for that advice.

    Depending on where Balog is situated, you may have to absorb Abigail, Shade AND DRakk's 1st round abilities. That's tough, because Drakk makes EVERYONE else attack with his Pillage. You may say this is a great time to use your Furnace, but if you cycle to the next round with just Furnace, Shade will go right to Possession and really start screwing with your planning. Likewise, the 2nd round abilities for Shade and Balog are non-attacking; if you come in with TOO strong of a 2nd bait team, you'll survive into Round 3, where Shade can possess and that's not good.

    Your best bet is to use a high HP non-construct tank team as your first go to: William, IGO, Phemus and Phenol works fine. Idea is that you stand an excellent chance of making to all the way to Balog with that group. Then you can send in 3 weak HP heroes for your 2nd bait team; they'll take Abigails hit, Shades spirit link and die to Drakk's ability.

    Once you've used Spirit LInk and Cry Havoc up, come in with your big hitting team; GT to Shade, Agnon to Shade (Plummetting Doom, should kill), Solaris can either normal attack Drakk or use Phoenix Rising if available, and then Ferno does his Ferno things.

    3 Barbs + Shade: AGAIN?? Wait, what? Yea, I've been there where I've had 3 straight Shalog teams. I've used my crappy tank squad up, now what do I do? Here is where you start making smart decisions with your stronger heroes, especially if you're down to only 3-4 floors of the tower left. The alternative to using up Shade's Link is just to kill him. You can stroll in with your B-Team at this point, understanding that SB or MK(with Vibrating Palm) can 1-shot most shades. Kill Shade. Then it's just 3 barbs, where you can Bait Cry Havoc.

    Disaster Scenarios: You lose 1 or more of your GT, Agnon, Sol Ferno team. What do you do?

    You lose Ferno: This has happened to me once and I've had 3 Barb towers to go. You misjudge a Rage Cage (abigail) or accidentally hit Balog and he does Bull Rush 6 times. it happens. This is where you need to remember that Barbs can't heal naturally. Also, Burn Damage applies right after they lose their invincibility. You can roll in with GT, Agnon, Solaris and either Koros or Torchy after baiting Cry Havoc and apply burn to a Barb. It'll die the next turn, and GT's DR is enough to keep your team alive.

    You lose GT: Yikes! You need GT's DR to get through, right? Not necessarily. Swap in Torchy for GT. Ferno's DR for non fliers will get you through the 1st round (ALWAYS put Ferno last), use Torchy's silence to make sure you dont' get Bull Rushed or Pillaged (since Torchy is fast) and use Ferno's Dive Bomb (you have 4 Fliers, it's great).

    You Lose Solaris: Double Yikes! No insurance policy! Bring Emily along now. Remember, in the tower, she CANNOT benefit from those +1 energy runes, meaning you need to use her for a few turns before you can utilize her cleansing ability. Remember, ALSO in the tower, that you can bait out all of the opponents abilities. Do that, and you dont' have to worry about Cleansing, just utilize her Ressurrection if needed.

    You lose Agnon: You can swap in Torchy for Agnon.

    You lose all 4: Ok, this has happened. There is an alternate squad that can take a few Barb Floors: Shade, SB, Ponti/Daeris, Zomm. Essentially you need Zomm to survive, so make sure he's runed for def/HP and then you have 3 high attackers with you. Even if your attackers die, if they become ZOmminnions, you get them back at the end of the next round.

    You lose your Dark Team: Ok, you have no Solaris, Gt, Zomm, Shade, SB, Agnon or Ferno. AHHHHHHHH!! Time to ..... call your own Barbarians!! Yep, your Barbarians can do the job, especially if yuo've got the leg up on ability order due to baiting them. Heck, your Balog can put the kibosh on most of their abilities; you're guaranteed at least 1 floor win with this.

    You Lose all of the above. Cycle back to your B team. It becomes more dicey, but as long as you're careful about baiting, you can come into the match without worrying about Cry Havoc. Koros can reduce rage AND burn; he's great. Save his breath if you've got a bunch of barb teams coming up. You can also use cheap combos to chip at Barbs: Use Zen + Daeris. Yea, Zen sucks, but he makes people invincible for a turn. You're not trying to win, you're trying to damage them significantly. Daeris can do that. Use Reptiles; Same philosophy, any reptile dead means an Invincible Cobressa or Viperia. Worth it to throw your improves on those heavy hitters to give them a damage boost.

    I can't anticipate every combo out there, but the general philosophy is only use enough bait heroes on non-barb floors so that a fast "B Team" can win the floor with minimal damage. Keep doing that and you should be able to throw out full 4 hero bait teams for the Barb floors, which should be enough to carry the day.
  • Honestly, this change isn't half bad. My opinion on this is that this should be more applied to lower level bosses. While I was playing the Tower, I went up against a level 15 Solaris and a level 28 Shade, both only ascended once. And I'm level 69, nearly 70. I don't think this is fair to people like me who want a challenge. That's just my opinion.
    Symmetrical, lvl 65
    Guild of Death Jesters
    Not very happy by MK nerf
    New favorite hero is Zomm (for now....)
  • BarclodBarclod Member
    Here's the change I would like to that concerning the tower...

    Remove it as a requirement for the Daily quests.
    The tower is now zero percent fun for a lot of players and since it's obvious the devs are not going to actually do anything that will make it winnable for the majority of us, just dump it from the dailies.

  • RocksorRocksor Member
    You don't have to beat a floor to get the credit for a daily quest. Just send one lowbie char in and lose.
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Update: We have made a second round of changes aimed at level 80 players.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • PugsOfWarPugsOfWar Member
    @Joel - what are the new changes?
  • Kegman913Kegman913 Member
    he clearly didn't want to say. Wants to see if **** stops first lol
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Sorry, I should have explained better. The second change is essentially the same as the first change, but increases the range even more and only affects players who are level 80.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • PugsOfWarPugsOfWar Member
    Thanks @Joel :)
  • denabugdenabug Member
    Joel wrote: »
    Sorry, I should have explained better. The second change is essentially the same as the first change, but increases the range even more and only affects players who are level 80.

    @joel - does roster power determine your tower opponents if your level 80 ?
  • sirolk99 wrote: »
    GingeNinja wrote: »
    A 25 gem tower refresh (where you keep none of the progess, but gain a fresh roster and a different line-up) could be a temporary fix to the problem.

    Excellent idea!
    @Joel @xtmn8r @DB_Dillon @DB_Dave @Veronica

    The only issue I have with this is I bet 90% that it will have an issue with any second tower charges... this is DB we're talking about...
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