Regarding Agnon

We know the tower needs adjusting. When making those adjustments give some consideration to Agnon. It’s odd that a 62 Agnon can still murder a hero on basically every floor, yet with his trashy 62 teammates they never deal sufficient damage that Solaris can trigger a resurrection. Then, you get to see him on more floors than not, so there’s a big pile of dead tanks and other by the time you finish.

Seems like maybe at lower lvls his damage should scale a little more.
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Comments

  • i have better idea, lets remove agnon from game, ready to pay for this stuf.
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    We're hearing the feedback. We aren't going to make any changes this week, because we want to see if the meta self-corrects, but we are keeping a close eye on our purple gargoyle friend.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Joel wrote: »
    We're hearing the feedback. We aren't going to make any changes this week, because we want to see if the meta self-corrects, but we are keeping a close eye on our purple gargoyle friend.

    But you did make changes this week. You buffed him!
  • StinkyStinky Member
    Joel wrote: »
    We're hearing the feedback. We aren't going to make any changes this week, because we want to see if the meta self-corrects, but we are keeping a close eye on our purple gargoyle friend.

    But you did make changes this week. You buffed him!

    Yeah, instead of giving some consideration to Agnon, maybe we should hope the devs forget about him instead.
  • I think his dark skies needs to go. He’s essentially doing x2 damage to everything
    Level - 73
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  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    It was a correction to what was a bug. We knew it would be a buff for him, but from the community reaction, it seems we may have underestimated the impact of the inadvertent buff. Like I said, we're keeping an eye on things and will weigh our options on how best to scale him back if necessary.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Joel wrote: »
    It was a correction to what was a bug. We knew it would be a buff for him, but from the community reaction, it seems we may have underestimated the impact of the inadvertent buff. Like I said, we're keeping an eye on things and will weigh our options on how best to scale him back if necessary.

    I think his defense multiplier should be scaled down by half. You don't even need 13x and 2x damage to kill something... He should still one shot equal level tanks but not 5+ levels ahead of him.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited July 12
    Joel wrote: »
    It was a correction to what was a bug. We knew it would be a buff for him, but from the community reaction, it seems we may have underestimated the impact of the inadvertent buff. Like I said, we're keeping an eye on things and will weigh our options on how best to scale him back if necessary.


    @Joel not to be argumentative, but in this thread you said it was intentional design for agnon stoneform to remove buffs, not a bug. I’ve seen a lot of people support making it so selwyn/ice block goes back to not holding buffs, but not changing agnon to be more like selwyn. Too powerful.
    Joel wrote: »
    That's intentional, the Stoned status has always cleared buffs and debuffs.

  • edited July 12
    From that response, he could be referring to Stoned (from Cobressa).
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  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited July 12
    He could be, but the response was in direct answer to someone who was asking why survivor rune regeneration wasn’t working for agnon.

    Plus, agnon has been around for nearly 6 months. Odd that this “bug” was never acknowledged or fixed in all that time, but suddenly pops up on the radar.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited July 12
    In the context of that thread, though, it doesn't actually make sense for Joel to be talking about Cob's petrification - ScoutYo was wondering if Graniteform removing buffs was meant to happen, since it's not mentioned in the tooltip. As Joel doesn't make another post in the thread, the impression given is that Agnon is supposed to shed buffs when entering Graniteform.
  • Plus, agnon has been around for nearly 6 months. Odd that this “bug” was never acknowledged or fixed in all that time, but suddenly pops up on the radar.

    Actually 4 months and 3 weeks :wink:.
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  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited July 13
    Dammit, Skip beats beating me to the punch. Alright, I'm going to try again. Here is a thread ScoutYo made asking for clarification about the Graniteform bug. For anyone who's allergic to clicking:
    DB_Dillon wrote: »
    Another interesting bit: if you have Ferno use his Dive Bomb ability, which supposedly includes a random basic attack from all flying allies, Agnon will not perform that attack if he is in granite form. But he will if he is in normal form.

    Pretty tough to move when you're encased in stone. :)
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    I mean, if this is truly the way Graniteform is intended to work, then fair enough ... but that really should be communicated in the passive's description.

    @DB_Dillon any thoughts?

    I agree, it should say that on the tooltip.

    You'd think if it was a bug, DB_Dillon wouldn't agree about a tooltip change.
  • kmobkmob Member
    Agnon is my fav hero. And this is way too much
  • mrdahlmrdahl Member
    I like conspiracies and cant shake the feeling that this Agnon buff is an indirect way of increasing interest in the dead loss Deadeye.
    Make Reptiles Great Again!
  • StinkyStinky Member
    mrdahl wrote: »
    I like conspiracies and cant shake the feeling that this Agnon buff is an indirect way of increasing interest in the dead loss Deadeye.

    I think they like purple heroes more than they like yellow heroes. Which is fine, but at least pick one of the weaker shadowy heroes, like Dagrand.


  • @Joel not to be argumentative, but in this thread you said it was intentional design for agnon stoneform to remove buffs, not a bug. I’ve seen a lot of people support making it so selwyn/ice block goes back to not holding buffs, but not changing agnon to be more like selwyn. Too powerful.


    I agree with this post completely. You should change back graniteform and also make selwyn's iceblock also purge all buffs and debuffs.

    Most players I have talked to hate having to check runes before each battle. With the introduction of the tank rune, you now have to check every selwyn and set of barbarians for the rune. Now you have to check every agnon too. Thanks for making pvp slower and more frustrating.
  • Selwyn with a tank rune is really difficult and making PvP unenjoyable.

    DB Devs: CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Thank you Joel. sometimes we just have to beat the dead horse until someone comes along to remove it
  • @Joel Can you also change Selwyn's ice block so it also purges buffs and debuffs. I believe most of the community would appreciate that change also.
  • sirolk99sirolk99 Member
    Hey now, don't be speaking for everyone.
    Just speak for yourself.
    Potatoccino Guild - Lvl 73 - VIP 2
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  • I did. I said "I believe" You must have missed that.
  • Selwyn doesn't need debuffed does he? He's no Agnon
  • coneyKconeyK Member
    Sorry, I can’t remember: do the Gorgons do bonus damage to graniteform Agnon?
  • StinkyStinky Member
    Yes.
  • Here's the thing. Agnon can one-shot any hero he can hit with his first attack, period. I've seen Agnon get over x100 damage multipliers for his Plummeting Doom attack, which is frankly insane. He can barely be touched except by certain heroes (such as Koros) before his first killer move. He actually does MORE damage the more defense you have, the reverse of every other hero in the game.He has very low energy recharge costs (3-4-3), possibly the lowest in the game.

    This requires special handling, more than any other hero currently in the game. You either let him kill someone and then revive (or Zomminion) them, or try to get him to target someone he can't kill, which means putting the tank rune (if you have one) on Shadowblade (who will hopefully dodge his attack), Selwyn (who you hope is still in iceblock form), or currently Agnon himself (in Graniteform). The final (and my favorite) counter is to have Shade spirit link to an enemy tank (usually Goretusk) if taunting, which requires an energy rune, have Agnon kill his own team mate, and then have your Agnon kill the enemy Agnon, while Hopper munches happily on the fallen.

    All this, and Agnon is invulnerable to ALL debuffs, while also being able to be healed unlike all constructs except Stone Fist (who is frankly no replacement for Agnon), and taking less damage from non-physical AND melee attacks, which only really leaves him highly vulnerable to bow users and a couple of special first attacks like Black Diamond and Masuta Kira's. BD wont hurt him in Graniteform though.

    This is already too much, and now Agnon can benefit from buffs while in Graniteform. OK, that's going to go, but you still have a hero that many players just can't defend against, particularly if he appears multiple times in the tower.

    I agree with the suggestion that Agnon just be a regular construct, so only Dagrund (3rd skill) and Bauble (2nd skill) can heal him. The living construct idea is interesting, but it's just not necessary (or really in any way logical) and just makes non-living constructs less appealing. I'd go further, and suggest that if heroes can't be de-buffed, maybe they should not benefit directly from buffs either, unless the buffs are cast by other constructs such as Bauble or Alexandros. Bauble was after all created to be the big construct healer, but now languishes in the forgotten hero pile.

    If you create a Frankenstein's monster hero then that ought to be a living construct, but not just something made of stone.



  • I think we need an elf legendary and huge buff to willow. Willow has a purge and 2x to flying so she seems like she should be the perfect counter.

    (Also I was out of town for tank runes... RIP.)
  • danacdanac Member
    Barleyman wrote: »

    I agree with the suggestion that Agnon just be a regular construct, so only Dagrund (3rd skill) and Bauble (2nd skill) can heal him. The living construct idea is interesting, but it's just not necessary (or really in any way logical) and just makes non-living constructs less appealing. I'd go further, and suggest that if heroes can't be de-buffed, maybe they should not benefit directly from buffs either, unless the buffs are cast by other constructs such as Bauble or Alexandros. Bauble was after all created to be the big construct healer, but now languishes in the forgotten hero pile.

    If you create a Frankenstein's monster hero then that ought to be a living construct, but not just something made of stone.



    Agnon was actually a massive debuff to Furnace Alex and Bauble, since they are and will likely be the only non-healable constructs.

  • Barleyman wrote: »
    Here's the thing. Agnon can one-shot any hero he can hit with his first attack, period. I've seen Agnon get over x100 damage multipliers for his Plummeting Doom attack, which is frankly insane. He can barely be touched except by certain heroes (such as Koros) before his first killer move. He actually does MORE damage the more defense you have, the reverse of every other hero in the game.He has very low energy recharge costs (3-4-3), possibly the lowest in the game.

    This requires special handling, more than any other hero currently in the game. You either let him kill someone and then revive (or Zomminion) them, or try to get him to target someone he can't kill, which means putting the tank rune (if you have one) on Shadowblade (who will hopefully dodge his attack), Selwyn (who you hope is still in iceblock form), or currently Agnon himself (in Graniteform). The final (and my favorite) counter is to have Shade spirit link to an enemy tank (usually Goretusk) if taunting, which requires an energy rune, have Agnon kill his own team mate, and then have your Agnon kill the enemy Agnon, while Hopper munches happily on the fallen.

    All this, and Agnon is invulnerable to ALL debuffs, while also being able to be healed unlike all constructs except Stone Fist (who is frankly no replacement for Agnon), and taking less damage from non-physical AND melee attacks, which only really leaves him highly vulnerable to bow users and a couple of special first attacks like Black Diamond and Masuta Kira's. BD wont hurt him in Graniteform though.

    This is already too much, and now Agnon can benefit from buffs while in Graniteform. OK, that's going to go, but you still have a hero that many players just can't defend against, particularly if he appears multiple times in the tower.

    I agree with the suggestion that Agnon just be a regular construct, so only Dagrund (3rd skill) and Bauble (2nd skill) can heal him. The living construct idea is interesting, but it's just not necessary (or really in any way logical) and just makes non-living constructs less appealing. I'd go further, and suggest that if heroes can't be de-buffed, maybe they should not benefit directly from buffs either, unless the buffs are cast by other constructs such as Bauble or Alexandros. Bauble was after all created to be the big construct healer, but now languishes in the forgotten hero pile.

    If you create a Frankenstein's monster hero then that ought to be a living construct, but not just something made of stone.



    Now that I'm thinking about it, what if the change was so that normal constructs worked the way they did before, since it makes since that since they're basically robots that they can be "Upgraded" via buffs, but living constructs can't be buffed by anything they don't produce. That way, you still have a choice of either healing or buffs, so that living constructs aren't the go-to option.

    Side-note: I get why Stonefist is a living construct from a mechanical standpoint. You get him very early on, so if you couldn't heal him normally he'd be out of commission. I think since the living construct vs. construct idea is that living constructs are statues made of magic and stone by mages, and thus have a soul to heal yet no skin to poison, while constructs are just machines with either advanced A.I. or a spirit possessing them.
    Level: 74
    Position: Officer of Evil Inc
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    "Once you have accepted your flaws, no one can use them against you."
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