remove miss already

seriously, its not a big enough disadvantage to go up against someone 2-3 levels higher than you that has stronger heros and higher stats, but also give them a huge bonus in random miss % chance, its dumb and should not exist, either remove that random junk or make pvp only vs people the same level as you

Comments

  • Agreed, i even miss frozen heroes....
  • I think they should remove miss chance if the level difference is small, say 5 levels or so, but substantially increase it when the level difference is higher. I hate seeing those lvl 1-7 Kais that never seem to miss.
    IGN: Xanathra
  • Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.
  • Esmenoth wrote: »
    Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.

    Disagree, I think the miss mechanic is just a bandaid to fix their lazy programming.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Esmenoth wrote: »
    Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.

    Disagree, I think the miss mechanic is just a bandaid to fix their lazy programming.

    Wouldn't it be easier to not program a miss/dodge chance though? If you're attacking a person 3 levels higher than you, you deserve to lose anyways.
  • @JackHallow666
    Esmenoth wrote: »
    Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.

    Disagree, I think the miss mechanic is just a bandaid to fix their lazy programming.

    Wouldn't it be easier to not program a miss/dodge chance though? If you're attacking a person 3 levels higher than you, you deserve to lose anyways.

    @JackHallow666 you deserve to lose lol how are you a moderator?
  • Characters being dazed and missing is a trait that's definitely here to stay. Yea it might frustrate you sometimes in PvP, but you gotta live with it and move on. Missing also gives characters like Rogar and Takumi an advantage, as they have the Perfect Swing trait.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    @JackHallow666
    Esmenoth wrote: »
    Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.

    Disagree, I think the miss mechanic is just a bandaid to fix their lazy programming.

    Wouldn't it be easier to not program a miss/dodge chance though? If you're attacking a person 3 levels higher than you, you deserve to lose anyways.

    @JackHallow666 you deserve to lose lol how are you a moderator?

    I'm a guru... and sorry if that came off as rude. I should explain more.

    There is a level cap, 70 as of now. To be a top PvP competitor you pretty much have to be level 70. The two benefits are having stronger heroes and the fact nobody can be a higher level than you. Attacking a team 3 levels higher than you is just suicidal. I'm not saying you should lose for doing that, but you might as well be asking for it. "You" meaning not actually you specifically but just anyone in general. The dodge/miss mechanic, if you ask me, is nice because it gives a little bonus to people who've been around longer and have higher leveled teams.

    Also, there's ways around it. Like using Hansuke or Rogar who can't miss.
  • @JackHallow666
    Esmenoth wrote: »
    Predictable outcomes will eventually crush a game that does not have dynamic interplay between players.

    It is already a straightforward thing to win most PvP battles, and that is with the defence going first, having fully charged abilities and a 40% health buff. Sun Tzu was correct, foreknowledge of your opponent is such a huge advantage.

    While I agree that there are some goofy things happening with frozen heroes (including MK still getting tenacity attacks), the chance of missing is an important variable that keeps combat a little unpredictable.

    Disagree, I think the miss mechanic is just a bandaid to fix their lazy programming.

    Wouldn't it be easier to not program a miss/dodge chance though? If you're attacking a person 3 levels higher than you, you deserve to lose anyways.

    @JackHallow666 you deserve to lose lol how are you a moderator?

    I'm a guru... and sorry if that came off as rude. I should explain more.

    There is a level cap, 70 as of now. To be a top PvP competitor you pretty much have to be level 70. The two benefits are having stronger heroes and the fact nobody can be a higher level than you. Attacking a team 3 levels higher than you is just suicidal. I'm not saying you should lose for doing that, but you might as well be asking for it. "You" meaning not actually you specifically but just anyone in general. The dodge/miss mechanic, if you ask me, is nice because it gives a little bonus to people who've been around longer and have higher leveled teams.

    Also, there's ways around it. Like using Hansuke or Rogar who can't miss.

    I'm level 67 now and have always attacked teams with up to +3 lvls and I've never even known nor realised that they had a higher dodging chance. I've beaten most of them with bd, zen + ponti and mk, the misses are too few too matter in my opinion.
  • Anything more than 3 levels up and you're risking a miss.
  • Level differences have a strange effect on certain stats. Fear, stone and marked for death become useless when facing a higher level enemy. Burn damage does devastating damage from higher level enemies but very little from lower level enemies. Any level 60 playing Fire boss island will know this intimately.

    Miss rate isn't a stat, but probably sits between 5-10%.

    My guess is that level difference acts as a multiplier on resist and miss rates.

    I wish DB would be explicit with how their stats work. Why the mystery?
  • @MonkeyHunter. Agree 100%. Wish there was more transparency. Certain abilities like sumo stomp daze, Kai's drenched, and others don't seem to be affected or affected as much by level differences, while as you note, other ones are severely impacted. I remember when I was doing challenge mode at level 55, facing level 72 mobs, and my burns and shocks were resisted 100% of the time. I don't necessarily think the resists and misses are a bad thing, but it would be nice to know more about the mechanics.
  • i have no problem with missing due to being dazed, that is a game mechanic and a skill in the game.. what i have problems with is missing 2 characters with an attack that if I hit i 100% win and if i miss i 100% lose the game, and these 2 characters have 0% dodge and some random increased % chance to miss cuz they are a few levels higher, it is broken and silly, more than likely this mechanic is in the game to prevent people from killing pve levels that are higher than them however it effects pvp badly.. like i said, dodge chance and missing when you are dazed or from other skills i am fine with, but random misses because i am 1,2,3 levels lower is stupid, and its not a small % chance, it happens a LOT

    and to the person saying predicatable outcomes will crush the game, putting random things in the game will make it better? why not add a 10% chance that one of the characters on defense becomes immortal and unkillable? that is pretty much what happens when you miss 1 or 2 people on a skill you NEEDED to hit to win the game and end up missing because their character happens to be 2 levels higher
  • My level 68 OE, not dazed or debuffed in any way, missed a statue last weekend.
    Wilbean
  • EsmenothEsmenoth Member
    edited October 2016
    ferret1830 wrote: »
    and to the person saying predicatable outcomes will crush the game, putting random things in the game will make it better? why not add a 10% chance that one of the characters on defense becomes immortal and unkillable? that is pretty much what happens when you miss 1 or 2 people on a skill you NEEDED to hit to win the game and end up missing because their character happens to be 2 levels higher

    One is something you dreamed up to try and prove a point. The other is the kind of outcome you should expect in combat. Huge difference.
  • Esmenoth wrote: »
    ferret1830 wrote: »
    and to the person saying predicatable outcomes will crush the game, putting random things in the game will make it better? why not add a 10% chance that one of the characters on defense becomes immortal and unkillable? that is pretty much what happens when you miss 1 or 2 people on a skill you NEEDED to hit to win the game and end up missing because their character happens to be 2 levels higher

    One is something you dreamed up to try and prove a point. The other is the kind of outcome you should expect in combat. Huge difference.

    they are both the same thing since when you pvp vs stronger teams missing an ability because something is 1-2 levels higher pretty much loses you the game, if you can't understand that then you either dont pvp much, or only fight things your own level/lower level
  • ferret1830 wrote: »
    Esmenoth wrote: »
    ferret1830 wrote: »
    and to the person saying predicatable outcomes will crush the game, putting random things in the game will make it better? why not add a 10% chance that one of the characters on defense becomes immortal and unkillable? that is pretty much what happens when you miss 1 or 2 people on a skill you NEEDED to hit to win the game and end up missing because their character happens to be 2 levels higher

    One is something you dreamed up to try and prove a point. The other is the kind of outcome you should expect in combat. Huge difference.

    they are both the same thing since when you pvp vs stronger teams missing an ability because something is 1-2 levels higher pretty much loses you the game, if you can't understand that then you either dont pvp much, or only fight things your own level/lower level


    No.

    Now, dodge and miss are the same thing, yet you seem to have no problem with dodge. With a few exceptions (MK, say) any of the defenders in pvp can have dodge (through runes), but you don't know until it's successful. And even when it works, you don't know how much dodge they had. It's a variable in combat that you know is there, probably on all the defenders to some extent. Did that Igorok have 1% and get lucky? Or is it stacked with 25% dodge and you next attack is also not going to land? Variable outcomes, whether damage, crit, dodge or miss are all part of what brings tension to a battle game. And that's what Dungeon Boss is, a "fast-action battle game."

    Dealing with variables is what makes a battle interesting. There has to be risk, a chance of failure. Yes, you want to reduce that risk to a minimum. But without risk, it is not a battle game, it is a puzzle game. Don't get me wrong, I like puzzles too. I do crosswords regularly. But in puzzles, there is always a predictable outcome. If you get it, you get it 100%. That is not a premise of combat games. When pvp raiding became really predictable a while back, people complained, and rightly so, because it wasn't exciting. The chance of losing makes winning thrilling.

    I play pvp all the time and raid right almost exclusively. Sometimes my heroes miss. Sometimes their heroes miss. I've won raids (and boss fights and tower levels etc.) because the defender has had a clutch miss. I've also lost some times for the same reason. I would stop playing if it were otherwise.
  • dodge and miss are not the same thing, dodge has an actual % in the stats menu whereas miss is just some tiny number that increases by a lot if someone is higher level than you, it is dumb that you lose a fight only because you are lower level and some pve mechanic based on missing just caused you to lose.

    ive said it a bunch of times i have no problem with miss when you are dazed or from actual skills and i have no problem with dodge, when i miss on 3/4 of my targets because they are 2 levels above me though, thats stupid and cant be planned around obviously, if you think it can than i guess you are sun tsu and never lose a battle
  • Why is dodge even in this conversation. It has its own game stat and can be scales with runes, so I don't understand why dodge is even in this conversation. However, with miss (and even resistance even though you can scale that too) I understand why people might get frustrated with it, but honestly this mechanic is in almost every game when something a higher level you have a higher chance of missing. In my opinion this conversation shouldn't even happen if you lose than you lose you'll have more pvp matches and it won't drastically effect you.
  • Wilbean wrote: »
    My level 68 OE, not dazed or debuffed in any way, missed a statue last weekend.

    this is amazing
    TrueMelkio?gid=ascension
  • Almost a year necro, but i commented in this topic back then, if i've read the new updates correctly. They are now (after two years) going to lose this feature which have been asked for from the beginning. i still wonder, why now?
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    If a character dodges an attack, did the attack not miss?
  • Dodge and miss are too different things. Y'know.
    Awesome Farfella guy up there was created by jackhallow666^!!!
    Also, go gorgons!
  • I am working hard to see the Miss become a Mrs.
  • bvs72 wrote: »
    I am working hard to see the Miss become a Mrs.

    so you won't miss her ever again?
  • FatCat69FatCat69 Member
    edited September 2017
    How can we miss you if you won't go away? ;)
  • If a character dodges an attack, did the attack not miss?

    If a character dodges an attack in a forest dungeon, did the attack really take place?
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