as someone who frequently uses him...

Zen really needs a nerf, for what he can do and owing to the fact he doesnt rely on stars to be an effective offensive hero, he offers way too much to a team in a way that makes him a must-pick for almost any team comp. The ability to boost an ally to Fast alone is a defining trait, but it also heals, hastes and makes the target impervious, pair it with someone like IGOROK, Leonidus or Kozar makes for a devastating combination and more often than not makes for an almost guaranteed victory assuming your 2 other attackers arent complete garbage. On top of that he also takes half damage from melee attacks and has a huge amount of health, even with a low defense this guy is hard to kill when you factor in his aegis shield. When you decide to chat about the next set of balance changes, you should really take the time to evaluate where Zen stands in PVP.

Also, CHANGE EMBER'S AI ON DEFENCE!!! I dont think anyone with half a brain would use Embers Fire Mend on the enemies, seriously, that attack buff is no joke.
Current Wishlist: Solaris.

Free agent.

Buff Takumi, Balog and Alexandros.

Comments

  • Agree on this, before Zen PvP was always a bit of a challenge, you had to choose a team that fitted the enemies exactly and you would loose sometimes too. Now it's just Zen + any AOE - damage dealer + maybe Astrid for the Def-Buff if the enemies have a BD or MK and basically everything is oneshottable. Also, defenses have MK easily 50+% of the time, I think it's about time to balance some heroes, especially those with 50+% userate either as defender or attacker and those with 50+% winrate (Zen and Kozar, I'm looking at you!). Some older heroes desperatly need a buff and it would fresh up the PvP experience.
  • edited November 2016
    heres a list of heroes i see most often in pvp
    kai
    astrid
    agustus
    furnace
    zen
    nubnub
    potifex
    black diamond
    masuta
    igorok
    icepick
    nitpick
    bramble
    kozar
    indigo
    tsume
    and now shade, ember and aria
    i cant go anywhere or win anything with these heroes absolutely everywhere i raid
    THEy NeVer LoVed ME!!!
    THREy neVeR LOvED PEAShY!!!
    y0uLL Ju5T hAVe TO J01n tHe r3ST Of thEm IF you oPPosE PEASHY!!!!
    EHAAAA~HA~HHA~HA~HAA~HA~HA~ha~hA~ha~Hha~ha~ha~HA~Ha~!!!!!!!!!!
  • Zen really needs a nerf, for what he can do and owing to the fact he doesnt rely on stars to be an effective offensive hero, he offers way too much to a team in a way that makes him a must-pick for almost any team comp. The ability to boost an ally to Fast alone is a defining trait, but it also heals, hastes and makes the target impervious, pair it with someone like IGOROK, Leonidus or Kozar makes for a devastating combination and more often than not makes for an almost guaranteed victory assuming your 2 other attackers arent complete garbage. On top of that he also takes half damage from melee attacks and has a huge amount of health, even with a low defense this guy is hard to kill when you factor in his aegis shield. When you decide to chat about the next set of balance changes, you should really take the time to evaluate where Zen stands in PVP.

    Also, CHANGE EMBER'S AI ON DEFENCE!!! I dont think anyone with half a brain would use Embers Fire Mend on the enemies, seriously, that attack buff is no joke.
    Zen is pretty broken it's true. He has made PVP almost entirely brainless for me. Especially now with shade, I barely glance at what the opponent has I just blindly raid right and win. Pretty ironic that the ability to see what the defense actually has (rune-wise) was finally added but came along with a hero that made what they have almost entirely irrelevant.

    Truthfully though I've been thinking along your lines for a while, Zen is the most OP one. Idk if changing him would entirely fix it as I've seen some seriously devastating Ember, Kira, BD, Aria teams that don't need slow heroes to kill you on T1. But it would certainly be a lot more difficult for the majority of players to get to the point where PVP is brainless.
    centralcommand
  • @CentralCommand its been brainless for me since level 1
    THEy NeVer LoVed ME!!!
    THREy neVeR LOvED PEAShY!!!
    y0uLL Ju5T hAVe TO J01n tHe r3ST Of thEm IF you oPPosE PEASHY!!!!
    EHAAAA~HA~HHA~HA~HAA~HA~HA~ha~hA~ha~Hha~ha~ha~HA~Ha~!!!!!!!!!!
  • heres a list of heroes i see most often in pvp
    kai
    astrid
    agustus
    furnace
    zen
    nubnub
    potifex
    black diamond
    masuta
    igorok
    icepick
    nitpick
    bramble
    kozar
    indigo
    tsume
    and now shade, ember and aria
    i cant go anywhere or win anything with these heroes absolutely everywhere i raid
    @CentralCommand its been brainless for me since level 1

    You literally just listed out all the heroes you see and said you can't go anywhere or win anything with them absolutely everywhere. So are you saying you are brainlessly losing? Or brainlessly raiding a very very specific selection of defenses? Or idk, I guess I have no idea what you're saying here, maybe "cant" was a mistype or something.

    Also idk about @RandomUser or you but I know @dontkilldyl and I are both referring to level 70 PVP. Max level PVP consists of the most powerful players in the game, if it is trivial to beat the hardest teams in the game then something is fundamentally flawed. At lower levels experience will vary but it will obviously get more difficult as you increase in level and run into more and more people that have had more time to groom and strengthen their roster (slow levelers, older players or both).
    centralcommand
  • edited November 2016
    @CentralCommand im currently lvl 63
    i meant to say that if i see more than 2 of those listed heroes. on any defense i get murked instantaneously
    THEy NeVer LoVed ME!!!
    THREy neVeR LOvED PEAShY!!!
    y0uLL Ju5T hAVe TO J01n tHe r3ST Of thEm IF you oPPosE PEASHY!!!!
    EHAAAA~HA~HHA~HA~HAA~HA~HA~ha~hA~ha~Hha~ha~ha~HA~Ha~!!!!!!!!!!
  • I know @dontkilldyl and I are both referring to level 70 PVP. Max level PVP consists of the most powerful players in the game, if it is trivial to beat the hardest teams in the game then something is fundamentally flawed.
    to be fair to the devs, this pretty much happens to every single game out there.

    it's highly doubtful that the devs sit around and think up the most OP combo possible, and put it to live (though Shade is kinda questionable). generally what happens is that the devs think up something that they THINK is balanced, and then players figure out a combination that hasn't been considered by the devs, OR, the devs think there's some counter that isn't being used by the players.

    from there, there's usually reluctance from the devs to make changes until "sufficient data" is obtained, and then tweaks are made reluctantly, and sometimes secretly.

    back to Zen. the problem isn't zen himself, by the synergy offered by his enlightenment spell. without an accomplice, zen would be pretty useless.

    i suspect that the devs will leave zen alone for the time being, especially with the introduction of shade.
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • @CentralCommand im currently lvl 63
    i meant to say that if i see more than 2 of those listed heroes. on any defense i get murked instantaneously
    Right so that means its not brainless, you have to think about what defenders they have. I'm saying I used to think about what to take like that, at least if I wanted to raid right and try and get the 50-100 trophy piles in level 70 PVP.

    Now I really don't even look at what they have. It essentially does not matter to me at all what heroes they have or how many are on your list. I pick the same team every time and I never lose. Zen was the first major step toward making it brainless, he's been in almost every PVP battle with me since his release. Kozar, Ember and runes made it almost brainless but I still had to think a little for the truly hard teams when I couldn't see runes (some absolutely decked out teams were problematic). Shade has now made it entirely brainless.
    centralcommand
  • heres a list of heroes i see most often in pvp
    kai
    astrid
    agustus
    furnace
    zen
    nubnub
    potifex
    black diamond
    masuta
    igorok
    icepick
    nitpick
    bramble
    kozar
    indigo
    tsume
    and now shade, ember and aria
    i cant go anywhere or win anything with these heroes absolutely everywhere i raid
    @CentralCommand its been brainless for me since level 1

    You literally just listed out all the heroes you see and said you can't go anywhere or win anything with them absolutely everywhere. So are you saying you are brainlessly losing? Or brainlessly raiding a very very specific selection of defenses? Or idk, I guess I have no idea what you're saying here, maybe "cant" was a mistype or something.

    Also idk about @RandomUser or you but I know @dontkilldyl and I are both referring to level 70 PVP. Max level PVP consists of the most powerful players in the game, if it is trivial to beat the hardest teams in the game then something is fundamentally flawed. At lower levels experience will vary but it will obviously get more difficult as you increase in level and run into more and more people that have had more time to groom and strengthen their roster (slow levelers, older players or both).

    I'm lvl 70 and also never was a slowleveler but my argument stands concerning zen, I personally use ponti with him and it shreds everything, even more since I got shade through the quests last weekend and I can os Kai teams now too^^
  • I agree. He is OP. Mostly due to other OP hero interactions.


    A fast AOE like MK or BD are both ranged on their Ults and can 1 shot a weaker Zen in theory. Except ASTRID ensures this won't happen.

    Kai can mess up the AOE strategy....unless of course you outclass the enemy enough that 70% reduction doesn't actually help them. But no worries... SHADE ensures that Ponti cannot be debuffed.

  • Honestly, is this a thread for defense or attacking because it seems you guys are complaining on both ends with heroes. Personally, if zen gets nerf that won't fix the other problems pvp has at the moment. And if/when zen gets nerf you still have heroes like shade that's boss status. Also, defenders have the disadvantage in every aspect of pvp so if you're losing to those heroes constantly then it's not the system it's you.
  • @CentralCommand its been brainless for me since level 1

    wow. I couldn't do pvp until like level 10. You're REALLY good.
  • Zen is easily countered by mk or sb..
    FINAL BOSS OFFICER
    9gJSaHl.gif
  • Seem like just another "I haven't figured out the latest meta, so it should be changed" thread.
    KashHatton
  • I don't understand Icepick at all. They gave him interesting passives but made him too squishy to give them any effect, and his only use is "do stupidly high damage with hailstorm."
  • It sounds like you understand him perfectly. ;)
  • AceyNB wrote: »
    Zen is easily countered by mk or sb..

    Oh yeah? So... how does MK counter Zen exactly? Or Shadowblade?

    Shadowblade on defense has about a 1/4th chance of attacking and hopefully killing Zen. And gets tasty dark bonuses... BUT does 1/2 damage due to melee vs flying. So, overall...FAIL.

    MK will AOE and hit everyone. Its ranged so it does full damage to flying Zen. So thats good. MK however will need better runes and better stars than the Zen to actually kill him...or get 2 crits.
    The problem comes in when the attacker brings Astrid. With +50% defense to Zen that means the MK has to be MUCH stronger than the Zen to 1-shot him.

    So NO... neither of those "counter" Zen.
  • edited November 2016
    @danac ive restarted my game about 5 times to se different stories play out on how i play the game. my 6th time is best since i have all these awsome heroes.

    @Warrrax
    2.
    MUHCH.
    META!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [mitsuri i need a hug STAT!!!!!!!!![ cries in corner]
    THEy NeVer LoVed ME!!!
    THREy neVeR LOvED PEAShY!!!
    y0uLL Ju5T hAVe TO J01n tHe r3ST Of thEm IF you oPPosE PEASHY!!!!
    EHAAAA~HA~HHA~HA~HAA~HA~HA~ha~hA~ha~Hha~ha~ha~HA~Ha~!!!!!!!!!!
  • The issue with PvP isn't Zen or Shade or even specific combos it's what happens when you add runes on top of it.
    I can no longer decide from day to day what to think of this game.... and that is frustrating
    I can no longer stand the direction of this game nor the insulting way issues are dealt with
  • Warrrax wrote: »
    AceyNB wrote: »
    Zen is easily countered by mk or sb..

    Oh yeah? So... how does MK counter Zen exactly? Or Shadowblade?

    Shadowblade on defense has about a 1/4th chance of attacking and hopefully killing Zen. And gets tasty dark bonuses... BUT does 1/2 damage due to melee vs flying. So, overall...FAIL.

    MK will AOE and hit everyone. Its ranged so it does full damage to flying Zen. So thats good. MK however will need better runes and better stars than the Zen to actually kill him...or get 2 crits.
    The problem comes in when the attacker brings Astrid. With +50% defense to Zen that means the MK has to be MUCH stronger than the Zen to 1-shot him.

    So NO... neither of those "counter" Zen.

    My most recent replay has my mk cut the attackers Zen in half pretty much with death blossom. Killed their strat.

    A guildmate of mine is using sb on defence, the large majority of the time he targets & kills Zen. Not to mention his defence being undefeated. In my opinion, the only failure was yours to understand the meta.
    FINAL BOSS OFFICER
    9gJSaHl.gif
  • Novastone23Novastone23 Member
    edited November 2016
    You do realize Zen can be counter with MK, SB and even Shade, as defence if his attack is good enough
    zntCIcd.gif
    The EMPIRE :: The Aegis of Athena
    KuK1uXt.png
Sign In or Register to comment.

© 2015 Boss Fight Entertainment, Inc. ; Boss Fight, the Boss Fight logo, and Dungeon Boss are
trademarks of Boss Fight Entertainment, Inc., used with permission www.bossfight.com