The Shade/Emily/Kira balancing promise.... months ago?

Anyone else remember when they were doing the newest Monster Update that the devs promised to look into and fix the balancing issues with Kira, Shade, and Emily? And this was announced before Koros was released....

Sofar I've heard nothing in terms of balancing them, and they still stand ontop as the current Runed Meta.

- Kira still dodges left and right while giving out 20k AOEs whiping out teams in one turn and receiving very little dmg and effects from Wushu Master.

- Emily still stacks an ungodly amount of DMG Reduction and PVP DMG Reduction making it nearly impossible to kill her without a Armor Peircing DMG GOD (I have a Shadow Blade with 5k DMG and only managed to do half health dmg to an Emily once from the amount of DMG Reduction should had a couple of times), and it's not exactly Her that is the threat, but more of the potential of bringing back threats you NEED TO get rid of.

- Shade Still can dish out 20-50k DMG with his first ability while having A DMG REDUCING DEBUFF IMMUNED BUFF, Can avoid Death completely with Spirit Link that shares NO DMG, and Revives Fallen Heros and Enemies as himself with Fast Speed and All Energy.

It's really sad that this balancing attempt was talked about MONTHS ago and nothing has been said, and yet we keep getting new constant heros that add more to the game with possible metas without attempts to fix the current one. My favorite is the Kira/Shade/Koros/Emily Meta... "Wanna kill Koros before he annihilates your team? Well goodluck with Wonder Woman Emily there, oh and have fun Surviving Kira's Death Blossom. Did you survive it? Cuz I doubt your ShadowBlade did, and now you have a Shade that is going to kill you. Did you survive the onslaught of both Kira and Shade while keeping your shadowblade alive? Kk well Hope you do enough dmg to kill Emily, or fruitlessly kill Koros and have him revived anyways so he can remove your evade, and burn EVERYONE TO DEATH WITH HIS 5k DMG!!"

I just need some kind of proof that this whole Meta problem is ACTUALLY being looked into and not just some forgotten promise to get everyone to shut up about it while the devs work on other tasks.

Please @Joel @Eej , Please do something about them? Why is it that Shade can get to do 20-50k DMG to anyone and doubled on a Tank with his Haunted Past ability, but Lupina does NO DMG with her Chaos Howl and Yokozuna hardly does about 10 DMG with his Sumo Stomp? Plus with an added bonus of all Dark Heros being immune and a HUGE GENEROUS DMG REDUCTION with Shrouded I might add...

Comments

  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.
    This ties into several other discussions, but I'll add a quick response here as this response you gave reflects my own biggest item i'm looking to in the balance.

    you are putting a whole lot of things into this one big revamp that will impact pretty much the entire game, which will almost assuredly involve balancing hero stars, rune values, epic values, and hero balance. That is A LOT of moving targets, with A LOT of promises associated with it.

    i'm concerned that you're essentially setting yourself up to fail with establishing a pretty impossible goal of getting all these things right with one pass.

    the other component is time. what good will the revamp do, if it takes 2 months to complete, and people have gotten fed up and left? I have intentionally avoided the use of a hyperbolic "1 year" in time frame because I really do think there's a ticking clock on these issues, and you guys are eating up that clock with every promising building up on that promise of delivery with the highly lauded ***!!Combat Revamp!!*** (with all pomp and circumstances possible).
    soon™ - it's the answer to everything
  • Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    edited June 2017
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.

    My biggest issue is Viperia. The fact that she can do such high DMG with multiple hits is what bothers me. What's worse is that she's the only Hero the purges 3 buffs as a AOE. Maybe keep 3 but the 3rd hit does DMG while the first 2 (or 1) only applies venom? The invincibility should also only be 1 turn, not 2. So it'll only stack up to 4 and not 10 or 8. Or maybe different Reptiles give different buffs on Death?

    Like Viperia gives team Invincibility for 1 turn on death, Cobressa gives team full HP and ATK Boost on death, General Krexx gives Def boost and Immunity on death, and (The new Serpentine Hero) Gives boosted SKL and Evade on Death. I think that would be a much more fun a tactful idea to having then be challenging but in a more thought provoking way, and not a broken 8 turn invulnerablity stupid way.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.

    My biggest issue is Viperia. The fact that she can do such high DMG with multiple hits is what bothers me. What's worse is that she's the only Hero the purges 3 buffs as a AOE. Maybe keep 3 but the 3rd hit does DMG while the first 2 (or 1) only applies venom? The invincibility should also only be 1 turn, not 2. So it'll only stack up to 4 and not 10 or 8. Or maybe different Reptiles give different buffs on Death?

    Like Viperia gives team Invincibility for 1 turn on death, Cobressa gives team full HP and ATK Boost on death, General Krexx gives Def boost and Immunity on death, and (The new Serpentine Hero) Gives boosted SKL and Evade on Death. I think that would be a much more fun a tactful idea to having then be challenging but in a more thought provoking way, and not a broken 8 turn invulnerablity stupid way.

    @Joel @Eej ^ THIS. Is a cool idea. Reptiles giving Reptiles different buffs upon death.

    Also, @Tenchigo, by "give" buffs, do you mean like, instead of a passive like Kindred Mourning that gives the hero a buff if another Reptile dies, it would be a passive the hero dying would use to give buffs to all other Reptiles, regardless of what Passives they have? The latter would be very cool. Although I think it should go like this:

    Viperia: +Attack and +Crit
    Cobressa: Full heal and +Skill
    Kreel: Evasive and +Def
    Krexx: Invincibility for 1 turn

    I'm just basing these ones by what each hero does, like how Viperia is a damage dealer, Cobressa is a support hero, Kreel is... well, he's an Eel, and they're slippery, so his is more based on what he is rather than what he does... and Krexx is a tank, and is the one with Taunt up in PvP, so he should give invincibility I think. That way, you would have to find a way around killing Krexx if you didn't want them to be invincible, like you sort of have to do now, but now you'd have to choose which Reptile to try and take out, as opposed to just Viperia every time.
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.

    My biggest issue is Viperia. The fact that she can do such high DMG with multiple hits is what bothers me. What's worse is that she's the only Hero the purges 3 buffs as a AOE. Maybe keep 3 but the 3rd hit does DMG while the first 2 (or 1) only applies venom? The invincibility should also only be 1 turn, not 2. So it'll only stack up to 4 and not 10 or 8. Or maybe different Reptiles give different buffs on Death?

    Like Viperia gives team Invincibility for 1 turn on death, Cobressa gives team full HP and ATK Boost on death, General Krexx gives Def boost and Immunity on death, and (The new Serpentine Hero) Gives boosted SKL and Evade on Death. I think that would be a much more fun a tactful idea to having then be challenging but in a more thought provoking way, and not a broken 8 turn invulnerablity stupid way.

    @Joel @Eej ^ THIS. Is a cool idea. Reptiles giving Reptiles different buffs upon death.

    Also, @Tenchigo, by "give" buffs, do you mean like, instead of a passive like Kindred Mourning that gives the hero a buff if another Reptile dies, it would be a passive the hero dying would use to give buffs to all other Reptiles, regardless of what Passives they have? The latter would be very cool. Although I think it should go like this:

    Viperia: +Attack and +Crit
    Cobressa: Full heal and +Skill
    Kreel: Evasive and +Def
    Krexx: Invincibility for 1 turn

    I'm just basing these ones by what each hero does, like how Viperia is a damage dealer, Cobressa is a support hero, Kreel is... well, he's an Eel, and they're slippery, so his is more based on what he is rather than what he does... and Krexx is a tank, and is the one with Taunt up in PvP, so he should give invincibility I think. That way, you would have to find a way around killing Krexx if you didn't want them to be invincible, like you sort of have to do now, but now you'd have to choose which Reptile to try and take out, as opposed to just Viperia every time.

    Thanks! I like the idea of buffs based on their roles, but in all honesty the main target is Viperia, it's the biggest target (pre-nerf atm) and hardly anyone will want to kill Krexx. But if you decide that killing Viperia is the best option to rid of the biggest threat, it will cause you to face the Reptile team invincible. But the buffs I mentioned were mostly a example to possibly build better upon.

    Maybe Krexx's death causes Venom on the enemy team, making it easier for the Reptile team to cause DMG and Heal along with their abilities to have a better effect (example: Kreel will do more dmg with his bite ability)... Or either Reptile Queen deaths causes venom?
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.

    My biggest issue is Viperia. The fact that she can do such high DMG with multiple hits is what bothers me. What's worse is that she's the only Hero the purges 3 buffs as a AOE. Maybe keep 3 but the 3rd hit does DMG while the first 2 (or 1) only applies venom? The invincibility should also only be 1 turn, not 2. So it'll only stack up to 4 and not 10 or 8. Or maybe different Reptiles give different buffs on Death?

    Like Viperia gives team Invincibility for 1 turn on death, Cobressa gives team full HP and ATK Boost on death, General Krexx gives Def boost and Immunity on death, and (The new Serpentine Hero) Gives boosted SKL and Evade on Death. I think that would be a much more fun a tactful idea to having then be challenging but in a more thought provoking way, and not a broken 8 turn invulnerablity stupid way.

    @Joel @Eej ^ THIS. Is a cool idea. Reptiles giving Reptiles different buffs upon death.

    Also, @Tenchigo, by "give" buffs, do you mean like, instead of a passive like Kindred Mourning that gives the hero a buff if another Reptile dies, it would be a passive the hero dying would use to give buffs to all other Reptiles, regardless of what Passives they have? The latter would be very cool. Although I think it should go like this:

    Viperia: +Attack and +Crit
    Cobressa: Full heal and +Skill
    Kreel: Evasive and +Def
    Krexx: Invincibility for 1 turn

    I'm just basing these ones by what each hero does, like how Viperia is a damage dealer, Cobressa is a support hero, Kreel is... well, he's an Eel, and they're slippery, so his is more based on what he is rather than what he does... and Krexx is a tank, and is the one with Taunt up in PvP, so he should give invincibility I think. That way, you would have to find a way around killing Krexx if you didn't want them to be invincible, like you sort of have to do now, but now you'd have to choose which Reptile to try and take out, as opposed to just Viperia every time.

    Thanks! I like the idea of buffs based on their roles, but in all honesty the main target is Viperia, it's the biggest target (pre-nerf atm) and hardly anyone will want to kill Krexx. But if you decide that killing Viperia is the best option to rid of the biggest threat, it will cause you to face the Reptile team invincible. But the buffs I mentioned were mostly a example to possibly build better upon.

    Maybe Krexx's death causes Venom on the enemy team, making it easier for the Reptile team to cause DMG and Heal along with their abilities to have a better effect (example: Kreel will do more dmg with his bite ability)... Or either Reptile Queen deaths causes venom?

    But then again, after a balancing nerf to Viperia, maybe it will be a better idea to have Krexx give Invincibility IF Viperia is properly nerfed to not be a complete monster but a balanced hero like everyone else.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    This is most definitely not a 'forgotten promise'. We are actually looking into some larger scale changes to how our combat system works and want to make sure that these (and other) heroes are properly balanced in the new system, so we're taking our time to ensure that we only have to make one set of changes, not two.

    Thanks for the reply. I've been very concerned about PVP and how it's turned from turned based tactics to "Rune'em N' Kill'em" kind of approach.

    (P.S. Is it possible to take a look at Viperia? She's also abit too out of hand aswell dishing out 20k AOE Buff Purging Multi-hit DMG while able to have a possible 10 turn invulnerablity.)

    Agreed, the Reptiles are a tad ridiculous. I believe Viperia's first ability hits 3 times, and Cobressa's hits twice. Just nerf both to hit one less time and then add a change where Invincibility can't stack. Should fix them.

    My biggest issue is Viperia. The fact that she can do such high DMG with multiple hits is what bothers me. What's worse is that she's the only Hero the purges 3 buffs as a AOE. Maybe keep 3 but the 3rd hit does DMG while the first 2 (or 1) only applies venom? The invincibility should also only be 1 turn, not 2. So it'll only stack up to 4 and not 10 or 8. Or maybe different Reptiles give different buffs on Death?

    Like Viperia gives team Invincibility for 1 turn on death, Cobressa gives team full HP and ATK Boost on death, General Krexx gives Def boost and Immunity on death, and (The new Serpentine Hero) Gives boosted SKL and Evade on Death. I think that would be a much more fun a tactful idea to having then be challenging but in a more thought provoking way, and not a broken 8 turn invulnerablity stupid way.

    @Joel @Eej ^ THIS. Is a cool idea. Reptiles giving Reptiles different buffs upon death.

    Also, @Tenchigo, by "give" buffs, do you mean like, instead of a passive like Kindred Mourning that gives the hero a buff if another Reptile dies, it would be a passive the hero dying would use to give buffs to all other Reptiles, regardless of what Passives they have? The latter would be very cool. Although I think it should go like this:

    Viperia: +Attack and +Crit
    Cobressa: Full heal and +Skill
    Kreel: Evasive and +Def
    Krexx: Invincibility for 1 turn

    I'm just basing these ones by what each hero does, like how Viperia is a damage dealer, Cobressa is a support hero, Kreel is... well, he's an Eel, and they're slippery, so his is more based on what he is rather than what he does... and Krexx is a tank, and is the one with Taunt up in PvP, so he should give invincibility I think. That way, you would have to find a way around killing Krexx if you didn't want them to be invincible, like you sort of have to do now, but now you'd have to choose which Reptile to try and take out, as opposed to just Viperia every time.

    Thanks! I like the idea of buffs based on their roles, but in all honesty the main target is Viperia, it's the biggest target (pre-nerf atm) and hardly anyone will want to kill Krexx. But if you decide that killing Viperia is the best option to rid of the biggest threat, it will cause you to face the Reptile team invincible. But the buffs I mentioned were mostly a example to possibly build better upon.

    Maybe Krexx's death causes Venom on the enemy team, making it easier for the Reptile team to cause DMG and Heal along with their abilities to have a better effect (example: Kreel will do more dmg with his bite ability)... Or either Reptile Queen deaths causes venom?

    I believe Krexx actually already does apply Venom on death.
  • Shade is perfect. There SHOULD be a unique hero with great power and insane abilities. They were called LEGENDARY heroes, like IGOROK and Pontifex. Now they're not so useful. So leave Shade with his op Haunted ;)
  • Shade is perfect. There SHOULD be a unique hero with great power and insane abilities. They were called LEGENDARY heroes, like IGOROK and Pontifex. Now they're not so useful. So leave Shade with his op Haunted ;)

    I hope you're being sarcastic.
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Shade is perfect. There SHOULD be a unique hero with great power and insane abilities. They were called LEGENDARY heroes, like IGOROK and Pontifex. Now they're not so useful. So leave Shade with his op Haunted ;)

    I hope you're being sarcastic.

    My biggest problem with shade is that I have to basically treat haunted past as an AOE when he's on defense. The developers obviously realized that an AOE first move for shade would be beyond broken which is good. But turn a blind eye means I can't corral him at all and have to assume everyone is at risk (like I do with an AOE) and that really limits my offense options. But of course if you take turn a blind eye away from him then the snakes team becomes completely unstoppable so that doesn't work either.

    It's all give and take. Shade is a superpower but he's also your superpower. A nerf to him won't make pvp any easier, people will just remove him from their defenses and put in all the worse options that shade used to counter.
    centralcommand
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Shade is perfect. There SHOULD be a unique hero with great power and insane abilities. They were called LEGENDARY heroes, like IGOROK and Pontifex. Now they're not so useful. So leave Shade with his op Haunted ;)

    I hope you're being sarcastic.

    My biggest problem with shade is that I have to basically treat haunted past as an AOE when he's on defense. The developers obviously realized that an AOE first move for shade would be beyond broken which is good. But turn a blind eye means I can't corral him at all and have to assume everyone is at risk (like I do with an AOE) and that really limits my offense options. But of course if you take turn a blind eye away from him then the snakes team becomes completely unstoppable so that doesn't work either.

    It's all give and take. Shade is a superpower but he's also your superpower. A nerf to him won't make pvp any easier, people will just remove him from their defenses and put in all the worse options that shade used to counter.

    He can do as much DMG as he wants and can have a blind eye, my problem is that his FIRST ability does so much destructive DMG enough to 1-hit any hero.

    He is a trickster hero, he's meant to screw around with everyone. He is meant to seriously turn tides with all 3 abilities and can turn any plan around.

    The biggest problem is that he can rid 98% of the heros with his first ability seeing how he has Magical III and can do 28K DMG (No Crit).
    At this point he's a trickster that plays the role of an unpredictable assassin.

    Within the first turn he:
    - Takes less DMG
    - One Shots a random hero
    - Possibly fears if he doesn't kill
    - Dark Deathmarks the whole team despite missing or IMMUNED

    Way too much perks for a fast hero who is meant to screw around with the enemy. If he did about 20 to 300 DMG with Haunted Past ability, it would make sense and be balanced. He preps his dark allies to do massive DMG to your team and possibly fears the target for 2x the potential death. Allows Shadowblade to be extremely scary and Hopper to do decent DMG.

    But when Shade just does 20k, Insta-kills the hero or Almost kills and fears and 80% of the time the target runs away from fear triggering, it is way too OP. Because not only does he pretty much take anyone he wants out the enemy team, but he also makes it easy for his dark allies to pick off the rest and also makes it much harder to kill him and his team with Shrouded.

    He shouldn't be capable of such power in the first turn, he should be a unpredictable support, not a unpredictable support attack assassin.
  • And shade immunity makes every debuffer(silence, drench,freeze, fear, etc) on round 1 useless and every debuffer that will be released in the game in future. I think Viperia is fine as there arent many green aoe nukers and her base damage being high on first ability she can go defensive runes.
  • YykkilYykkil Member
    edited June 2017
    My solution to Shade would be to remove his fast tag and change Spirit Link to channel only debuffs instead of damage.

    I also take a lot of issue with the "legendary" tag for heroes. I take issue with the tag system in general but particularly pointless Ines like "legendary". Legendary implies heroes that have a higher potency than others but it seems to be only there to allow for runes that add damage against Legendary heroes to function because the tag has no function, unlike most other tags. Mystical needs to be reworked as well, because x1.75 against tank or Slow is insane, as Slow gives a paltry +25% bonus to stats to compensate for their speed is negligible at best and tank does literally nothing.
    9807918
  • Yykkil wrote: »
    My solution to Shade would be to remove his fast tag and change Spirit Link to channel only debuffs instead of damage.

    I also take a lot of issue with the "legendary" tag for heroes. I take issue with the tag system in general but particularly pointless Ines like "legendary". Legendary implies heroes that have a higher potency than others but it seems to be only there to allow for runes that add damage against Legendary heroes to function because the tag has no function, unlike most other tags. Mystical needs to be reworked as well, because x1.75 against tank or Slow is insane, as Slow gives a paltry +25% bonus to stats to compensate for their speed is negligible at best and tank does literally nothing.

    Legendary heroes are typically "team" leaders. Igorok, Ponti, and Bramble all have team synergies. It was originally the intention for all legendary heroes to be similar to this regard. Valkin is obviously the team dwarf leader, but is still missing the necessary synergies for other dwarfs to really see play.
  • Tenchigo wrote: »
    Tenchigo wrote: »
    Shade is perfect. There SHOULD be a unique hero with great power and insane abilities. They were called LEGENDARY heroes, like IGOROK and Pontifex. Now they're not so useful. So leave Shade with his op Haunted ;)

    I hope you're being sarcastic.

    My biggest problem with shade is that I have to basically treat haunted past as an AOE when he's on defense. The developers obviously realized that an AOE first move for shade would be beyond broken which is good. But turn a blind eye means I can't corral him at all and have to assume everyone is at risk (like I do with an AOE) and that really limits my offense options. But of course if you take turn a blind eye away from him then the snakes team becomes completely unstoppable so that doesn't work either.

    It's all give and take. Shade is a superpower but he's also your superpower. A nerf to him won't make pvp any easier, people will just remove him from their defenses and put in all the worse options that shade used to counter.

    He can do as much DMG as he wants and can have a blind eye, my problem is that his FIRST ability does so much destructive DMG enough to 1-hit any hero.

    He is a trickster hero, he's meant to screw around with everyone. He is meant to seriously turn tides with all 3 abilities and can turn any plan around.

    The biggest problem is that he can rid 98% of the heros with his first ability seeing how he has Magical III and can do 28K DMG (No Crit).
    At this point he's a trickster that plays the role of an unpredictable assassin.

    Within the first turn he:
    - Takes less DMG
    - One Shots a random hero
    - Possibly fears if he doesn't kill
    - Dark Deathmarks the whole team despite missing or IMMUNED

    Way too much perks for a fast hero who is meant to screw around with the enemy. If he did about 20 to 300 DMG with Haunted Past ability, it would make sense and be balanced. He preps his dark allies to do massive DMG to your team and possibly fears the target for 2x the potential death. Allows Shadowblade to be extremely scary and Hopper to do decent DMG.

    But when Shade just does 20k, Insta-kills the hero or Almost kills and fears and 80% of the time the target runs away from fear triggering, it is way too OP. Because not only does he pretty much take anyone he wants out the enemy team, but he also makes it easy for his dark allies to pick off the rest and also makes it much harder to kill him and his team with Shrouded.

    He shouldn't be capable of such power in the first turn, he should be a unpredictable support, not a unpredictable support attack assassin.

    Ok so then everyone moves all the good runes from shade onto vip and hopper and sets vip, lily, krex, hopper as their defense since there's no way around krex anymore. Is this better?

    For the record - shade is not an attack assassin by default, everyone just builds him that way. You used to see about half attack shades and about half all defensive shades because his buffs/debuffs and spirit link were arguably more valuable on offense then a devastating single target attack. But then krex gained taunt immediately and the meta changed. Now you absolutely need some way to get around a taunt and kill viperia without killing krex or your just going to lose to those defenses.

    And the haunted debuff wasn't even much of a concern until hopper came along. It's not like shadowblade needs the help to kill people with from the shadows.

    I guess my point is most recent changes to the meta have been forcing players hands to not only invest massively in shade, but to specifically invest in runes which would make shade a "support attack assassin". So maybe you don't think that should be his role but it seems like DB does. They took a hero that was extremely versatile (dark runes have the most versatility so you could literally build shade any way you want) and forced us into one specific shade build in order to compete.
    centralcommand
  • ThundRThundR Member
    Well kira is a big cheetah

    I like panthers better though
    So much work.
  • YykkilYykkil Member
    edited June 2017
    Yykkil wrote: »
    My solution to Shade would be to remove his fast tag and change Spirit Link to channel only debuffs instead of damage.

    I also take a lot of issue with the "legendary" tag for heroes. I take issue with the tag system in general but particularly pointless Ines like "legendary". Legendary implies heroes that have a higher potency than others but it seems to be only there to allow for runes that add damage against Legendary heroes to function because the tag has no function, unlike most other tags. Mystical needs to be reworked as well, because x1.75 against tank or Slow is insane, as Slow gives a paltry +25% bonus to stats to compensate for their speed is negligible at best and tank does literally nothing.

    Legendary heroes are typically "team" leaders. Igorok, Ponti, and Bramble all have team synergies. It was originally the intention for all legendary heroes to be similar to this regard. Valkin is obviously the team dwarf leader, but is still missing the necessary synergies for other dwarfs to really see play.

    What you say makes sense, but if that is their implicated role, a tag that explicitly implies their sort of 'lynchpin functionality' would be more appropriate, because the tag 'legendary' may be misleading, as in the sense my own innate impression of a 'legendary' hero is an 'OP MF' (bit like Shade).
    9807918
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