Defender (Shade) Epic Proc Wrong?

Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
edited October 2017 in Bugs & Technical Issues
A while back, when DR meta was popular, I noticed that it felt like Shade epic procs went off a lot when he was on a defending team in PvP. Thought it might just be selection bias, since his epic was the only one that would ignore furnace taunt and wreck the DR strategy.

I ignored the issue a while, but it kept bothering me. I started tracking shade epic attack rates whenever I attacked a defense with shade. Used a furnace/bauble team to coax out shade basic attacks since he will basic attack on 2nd round if you have a taunt active. I'm ending the trial without as much data as I had hoped for, as the furnace/bauble team is not effective against the new beast meta, and I'm getting sick of taking extra losses just for the sake of data.

The numbers I've gotten seem to indicate that defending shade procs his epic at much higher than the 30% advertised. Note that I didn't track other defenders to see if it is just shade or not, and didn't track to see if rates are the same for PvE, attackers in PvP, etc. Numbera are shade on defense only.

Final count: 387 defensive shade attacks, with 214 of them epic, or about 55% epic attack rate. Won't fill the post with data, but I tracked by date and defender. Anyone else noticed a similar pattern even anecdotally?

All matches record as (X, Y) where X is total number of basic attacks and Y is the subset of those that proced epic. (2 2) is two attacks during the match with both of them being epic, for example.



  • So out of curiosity the "1 att" above indicates they've had one basic attack, right?

    It has always seemed very high to me as well. Like it's almost guaranteed to happen on his first basic attack.

    I'll go in with Furnace Bauble Ferno X and his first attack will be Haunted Past (of course), I taunt, and he seems to very regularly get an Epic attack immediately to take out Bauble.
  • I've noticed this as well, but have never tracked it. Happens a lot on MK's tenacity it seems as well.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited October 2017
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    So out of curiosity the "1 att" above indicates they've had one basic attack, right?

    Sorry, should have made the notation clearer. Had just been tossing into notes app as I went, so didn't put any effort into formatting.

    The two numbers are "total basic attacks" and "number of those that were epic". For example I attacked Pwnisher on 9/27 and noted "2, 2" meaning his shade attacked twice, with both of them procing epic.
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited October 2017
    FatCat69 wrote: »
    I'll go in with Furnace Bauble Ferno X and his first attack will be Haunted Past (of course), I taunt, and he seems to very regularly get an Epic attack immediately to take out Bauble.

    Yup, exactly the scenario that piqued my interest. That seemed to happen way more often than 1 in 3-ish matches. So tracked to see if I was just imagining things. >50% over ~400 trials could certainly be coincidental, but it's starting to get into the realm of "pretty **** odd run of luck". Wish I had 1,000 attacks or so to really feel more comfortable saying it's a problem, but thought maybe Joel could have it looked at and let us know if something is going on there.
  • Also something to note, I'm guessing not all those defenses had their Shade at Level 12 / 30%. ;)

    One would expect the average rate of proccing to be somewhere BELOW 30% just because people should be at varying stages of leveling it up.
  • I think sample size/probability math would say that you've tested plentyyyyy of cases to make a very strong cases something is wrong here.
  • Bump. Shade teams made a very strong comeback in the recent week or two. And with Solaris around, fights are often lasting long enough to force shade basic attacks. @Joel, any chance of getting this looked at?

    In the meantime, I might try to get down to a Solaris vs shade endgame and just let shade throw out hundreds of basic attacks for even more data points.
  • Nice job Fooz... err @Skip_Holmes !

  • Haven’t recorded any thing but definitely seems to be the case...also after testing on the high damage page it seems 2x etc for epics is applied more like +100% damage....would be nice to not this this a 2x shade epic won’t kill a bauble....but a shade epic plus 100% damage will...would be really nice to see this made uniform bc 2x damage and +100% damage are not always even close to the same thing
  • Back to the top! This is the only thing I have ever cared about.
  • I got into a pvp match last night where it was my Zomm Han Stonefist and Ekko versus the other team's DR Ekko. One epic from anyone besides my Ekko should kill opponent Ekko. It took me 10+ rounds and I lost Stonefist before I got one epic from Han to win the fight.

    Approximately 40 attacks at 30% chance each. The odds of that happening is 0.00006%
  • That’s either staggeringly bad luck, or some stuck RNG, echo. We’ve seen other instances where their RNG seems to “streak” in ways that defy the odds. Not sure why that is...
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited February 2018
    Bump. Haven’t been tracking more, but still seems out of whack. Any clarification on what the actual proc % for epics in pvp is? Because it definitely isn’t 30%.
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