Is Solaris actually OP? (its not a joke this time)

If you are lazy or you cant read then check this video:

lol im lazy so u gotta watch da vid :)

Mock exams finished...Im back!


  • MattCauthronMattCauthron Member
    edited October 2017
    Since I'm almost certainly the only person that took the time to watch this - I'll give some thoughts.

    The idea of getting a "bonus" by using a weaker runed team sounds like an idea that would hit the top of a terrible idea list. Let's break it down:

    1) An RPG is inherently about progression. Requiring weak runes would be counter intuitive to the core concepts of the game.
    2) Bait teams anyone? Surely you played during the times of bait teams. They were terrible
    3) The rune UI is HORRIBLEE. It's clunky. Time intensive. And frankly annoying to use.
    4) Without free rune swaps we'd all be constantly broke (You mentioned this).

    If LC is a joke - Get it ;) Don't write off an accomplishment just because you are incapable of achieving it. You are completely writing off how impactful your win rate is over 500 to 1000 raids especially given the existence of streaks. Hint: It's VERY impactful. If two people are going for top 100 and one of them has an 85% win rate and the other has a 95% win rate, there is going to be a very material difference in the number of raids required to hit the minimum threshhold. If that's not skill playing a role - I'm not sure what is.

    I'd be interested to hear an example of a game where large quantities of time aren't required to get to the "top". Just looking at a few games I'm familiar with - Hearthstone, Starcraft, MOBAs, Clash games: All have ladder systems that require both skill AND a ton of time to get to the top. Why is time required? Time is required so that small variances in skill have enough time to separate the players accordingly. It's true that in DB you can brute force your way to the top given a lower win rate than most games, but let's not pretend skill/roster strength don't also play an important role while simultaneously writing off the accomplishments of this games most dedicated players.

    It reminds me of all those Hearthstone players: "Yea I can hit legend. I just don't have the time." Reality check - Most of them can't.

    On another note - Good video overall. Given the length, there was very little "fluff". I agree that Solaris has been a great addition to PvP but I may be a little biased on that front. Quality content overall despite me disagreeing with the idea.

    Edit: Literally just watched a speech about giving idea feedback around the concept of "Yes and.." (Essentially not just shooting an idea down) so I thought I'd come back here. Of course the idea of making skill a more important vector is a good one. One of the main issues with basing anything off of the defenses rune power currently is the fact that the defense is random. You mentioned in your video you have no respect for someone picking on a 2k rune power player - but the reality is if I'm on a 20+ streak and I'm offered a 2k rune power player, I'm going to kill them. That's not ME picking on them. That's the game's design picking on them. So saying you have no respect for someone who does that seems a little misguided.

    Given this randomness creates so many issues with any notion of "bonus" trophies, it would be logical that removing or reducing the randomness could help facilitate the bonus trophy concept. I saw this mentioned the other day, but what if "hard" was always 5200+ rune power teams. Someone then mentioned how bait teams could become an issue then. I would counter that if you made defensive victories worth more while also removing defense loss penalties, you would create a very high incentive to 1) Want to be attacked 2) have the best defense you can.

    This is obviously just the framework of an idea, but I think it pushes the spirit of what you are trying to accomplish while avoiding many of the issues with your initial suggestion.
  • I like your comment! Very informative but now I have to talk about Guild games...
    Mock exams finished...Im back!
  • wow, a free plug - you dont see that every day :smile:
    thanks @ExtremeKorosPains

    But yes, @MattCauthron it does sound a bit judgy on my part about the LC title - to clarify, I think its a tremendous accomplishment for sure - I barely have what it takes to get into top 100, so getting to the top of that list takes some serious dedication. So what I am trying to convey, is that being ranked #1 here does NOT make you the best PvP'er and truth be told, with favorable time management, I believe almost anyone can accomplish the LC feat, regardless of how "good" you are. I want to see a PvP world where we are actually assessing the quality of our rankings.

    This brings me off topic to an anecdote from high school. This one serious D-bag (richie rich mf'er with no real talent for anything except spending his parents money) was on the hockey team, and he would go around bragging to friends and classmates for two seemingly impressive feats. "Most Saves in a Game" and "Most Saves in a Season" (he was goalie). What the burglar of turds conveniently left out, was that in both of these instances, he also gave up record number of goals in that game and in that season.
    Was he a "Good Goalie"? worthy of two school records? I sure hope you dont think so, because that would negate my entire argument.

    Lastly, to offer insight as to the picking on lower ranks - its true, you are presented with 3 options when you're on a heater, and you're not going to abandon the streak simply to go easy on the lower folks. What I dont care for is that people on streaks are being rewarded 400 trophies for a match you can win with 2 heroes. It plays back into the main argument that these sorts of wins do not help evaluate the quality of our ranks aside from simple streak continuance. I dont have the perfect solution for this, as there are going to be pros and cons across the board and we'll never please everyone. As long as I started a conversation, I am satisfied with my position and contribution to the topic.

    So in closing - to all ye who have achieved the LC title - well done. I'm not afraid to admit that its a feat I cannot accomplish. Just note - it doesnt make you the "best" in my book. :wink:

    Are all plugs shameless?
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