Season Rewards Revamp

124

Comments

  • ScoutYoScoutYo Member
    edited February 2
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/
  • danacdanac Member
    @ScoutYo I'm curious at what point do you rescind hope , throw in the towel ?

    - when the game causes my tablet to explode.

    -when the zombie apocalypse happens.

    -when the celebrity appresident pushes the bigly button.

    -soon [for DB values of soon]

  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Rolla8Rolla8 Member
    edited February 2
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...
    o3etqqdlgz6l.jpg
  • Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.
  • Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.

    Thank you, I am glad someone agrees with me.
    o3etqqdlgz6l.jpg
  • lythander wrote: »
    While these changes to rewards may end up sucking I do think that DB is improving PvP. I get worried when all the posts on the board are negative and might scare players away. I really like the game and without new players willing to spend money the game dies.
    I like your attitude about this stuff. :) Whatever the prevailing sentiment might be, obviously no guilds have monolithic shared opinions about the current state of PvP. My GM is completely fine with the meta, for example, and I've read some highly critical comments from people in your guild family.

    I definitely agree that we don't want to scare new players away. My fear is that, if we don't adequately communicate the level of discontent that certain changes cause, we're less likely to see a course correction.

    Too many long-time players are are on the fence about retirement, these days. For the game to be healthy, we need old-timers to stick around, as well as new blood. A change like this, at a time when there is already a lot of discontent with the state of PvP, feels like dangerously bad timing to me.

    The increase in average match length in high-end PvP seems to be the biggest frustration. The people frustrated with that can now add the fact that they need to play more (long) matches than before to get the season Rune in the honor shop. And they'll have fewer gems to show for it all, too. Instituting a change like this before addressing some of the more reasonable complaints about post-revamp PvP is another push towards the door for people who are already contemplating their exit.

    As someone who is still having fun playing the game, I'd really like to see the people I'm having fun playing *with* stick around.
  • So after reading all these comments and seeing your calculations I see it was embarrassing for me to think of this as a good change, I mean what @JaxBoomstick posted on the boss 100 made me shed a singular tear.

    I wish this Nerf never happened, if they had just made it change the way you earn your rewards with the daily thing maybe I would have been satisfied, but this combined with the fact this will cause a stalemate of L1 and L2 players with not much to do afterwards really upsets me
    Favorite hero: Lupina
    Just a player looking to interact with the community in a peaceful manner
  • Rolla8 wrote: »
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.

    Thank you, I am glad someone agrees with me.

    @MattCauthron I'm reading your comment as sarcasm directed at @Rolla8 not agreement. Is that correct?
  • lythander wrote: »
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.

    Thank you, I am glad someone agrees with me.

    @MattCauthron I'm reading your comment as sarcasm directed at @Rolla8 not agreement. Is that correct?

    It is. I'm pretty sure Rolla8 knew that too and responded in kind.
  • lythander wrote: »
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.

    Thank you, I am glad someone agrees with me.

    @MattCauthron I'm reading your comment as sarcasm directed at @Rolla8 not agreement. Is that correct?

    You should also read @Rolla8’s response to @MattCauthron’s sarcasm as sarcasm :)
  • @lythander Sorry about that; I'm all for discussions (though I'd argue Ekko and Rocky are very rare nowadays). I don't mind changing with the times, I'd just like some warning before they change something major.

    for instance, if they had announced at the start of this season that changes would be effective the next season, I think folks would be better with it. Dropping changes with no prep time just hurts.

    Same with the combat revamp.

    Just a bit of a heads up, a few days, ideally a week, would go a long way for me. I feel like I have to react to major changes and do major events simultaneously. Having some days to marshal resources would be great.
  • AtizZAtizZ Member
    @xandrew29 combat rewamp was discussed in the summits several times before it got live
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  • DB doesn’t need our help scaring players away, they are 100% on top of that.

    Maybe if I could just consume the correct body in PvP, then I might begin to think PvP is improving, and the laundry list of other bugs could be dismissed as a minor annoyance. For the most part, players are reasonable and understanding, and want the game to succeed, otherwise we wouldn’t bother posting on here at all.
  • I would be ok with the giant honor reductions for daily rewards if the honor/win was increased from 140 to like 200 or something. At least give us a chance to earn back those rewards.

    It's a nerf to gems and honor across the board, period. Just call it what it is DB, stop trying to make it sound like it's a benefit for the community. I don't mind that you guys need to make $$ (I'm a VIP player myself), but I hate the passive disingenuous approach to these things where you make it sound like it's a good thing for everyone when you're really reducing payouts (see the Tower becoming harder for the same rewards as another example).
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    Rolla8 wrote: »
    Joel wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    ScoutYo wrote: »
    lythander wrote: »
    @xandrew29 Ugh. I just spent 30 minutes writing a response to you. After I posted it, I then edited it and saved again and it disappeared.
    That happened to me earlier today, too. :/

    Sorry about that. Our spam filter sometimes catches longer posts accidentally. I've restored them.

    Again with the response to the least important comment within the post, whilst ignoring all of the important issues being brought up...

    It's crazy how often I forget that Joel is the CEO of Dungeon Boss and can answer any question he wants with his own volition. Living in such a permission free world must be the high life eh' Joel?

    Good thing I have all my fellow forum users to remind me of your lofty status so often. I do find it kind of rude that given your complete freedom to distribute any and all information you stoop so low as to do your actual job of tending to the forums. Really quite low brow of you sir.

    I mean, he's just their spokesperson. He just communicates between the real CEO and us. But I agree that it's upsetting that the blues don't seem to ever reply to any serious feedback, just the chit-chat and little things. Even if Joel is communicating our serious feedback to the actual devs, it'd be nice to at least know he's doing so with a reply. I can read all the cover-statements in the world like, "We read every comment! :smile:", or "We're listening to and value your feedback! :smile:", but it doesn't do anything when compared to a real, direct reply.

    Heck, even if there's a reason he can't reply to serious feedback posts... Like maybe he doesn't want to make it seem like he's playing favorites, or he might accidentally promise something, then he could also at least tell us that! Currently, it's just nothing.
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    Serious question: What would you consider a real, direct reply? You just said that it'd be nice to know that I'm communicating feedback with a reply, but then say that cover-statements aren't real, direct replies.

    I can't say "we're implementing every change you asked for at this moment!", because that's not true. I can't say "we're not going to change anything and will never consider changing anything", because that's not true either. Changes don't happen overnight, and even plans for changes take time. And even when we have plans for changes, the specifics of those changes are actively considered and reworked up until they are released. I can't say anything other than 'cover-statements', because I can't guarantee the accuracy of anything else, and statements create expectations, If I say a particular change is going to happen and we later release a change that isn't *exactly* what we said it would be, players will call us out on it. I can say we're reading and considering feedback, because it's true, and is always true. But I'm not going to respond to every single piece of feedback on the forum saying "I've read this and have passed it along to the team", because that would be obnoxious. I've operated this way since the forum started over two years ago. We even had a guild summit yesterday where @xtmn8r addressed questions and even made several announcements regarding future content. I'm honestly not sure what you're looking for or how I can better satisfy you while ensuring that I'm being accurate. :disappointed:
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Ok this has gone a little too far and a little too personal on Joel if he feels he has to reply with this kind of post.

    Sorry @Joel and thanks for everything you and the other blues do for this game and forum.

    We as a community need to remember Joel and the other blues are just the messenger, they don't have to do what they do on the forum or chat meetings. We shouldn't expect a reply to every little thing that gets whined about here on the forum by us. And we should never make it personal.

    :(
  • Joel wrote: »
    Serious question: What would you consider a real, direct reply? You just said that it'd be nice to know that I'm communicating feedback with a reply, but then say that cover-statements aren't real, direct replies.

    I can't say "we're implementing every change you asked for at this moment!", because that's not true. I can't say "we're not going to change anything and will never consider changing anything", because that's not true either. Changes don't happen overnight, and even plans for changes take time. And even when we have plans for changes, the specifics of those changes are actively considered and reworked up until they are released. I can't say anything other than 'cover-statements', because I can't guarantee the accuracy of anything else, and statements create expectations, If I say a particular change is going to happen and we later release a change that isn't *exactly* what we said it would be, players will call us out on it. I can say we're reading and considering feedback, because it's true, and is always true. But I'm not going to respond to every single piece of feedback on the forum saying "I've read this and have passed it along to the team", because that would be obnoxious. I've operated this way since the forum started over two years ago. We even had a guild summit yesterday where @xtmn8r addressed questions and even made several announcements regarding future content. I'm honestly not sure what you're looking for or how I can better satisfy you while ensuring that I'm being accurate. :disappointed:

    How big isn the dungeon boss team ?
  • Joel wrote: »
    Serious question: What would you consider a real, direct reply? You just said that it'd be nice to know that I'm communicating feedback with a reply, but then say that cover-statements aren't real, direct replies.

    I can't say "we're implementing every change you asked for at this moment!", because that's not true. I can't say "we're not going to change anything and will never consider changing anything", because that's not true either. Changes don't happen overnight, and even plans for changes take time. And even when we have plans for changes, the specifics of those changes are actively considered and reworked up until they are released. I can't say anything other than 'cover-statements', because I can't guarantee the accuracy of anything else, and statements create expectations, If I say a particular change is going to happen and we later release a change that isn't *exactly* what we said it would be, players will call us out on it. I can say we're reading and considering feedback, because it's true, and is always true. But I'm not going to respond to every single piece of feedback on the forum saying "I've read this and have passed it along to the team", because that would be obnoxious. I've operated this way since the forum started over two years ago. We even had a guild summit yesterday where @xtmn8r addressed questions and even made several announcements regarding future content. I'm honestly not sure what you're looking for or how I can better satisfy you while ensuring that I'm being accurate. :disappointed:


    Look, we're not naive. We're not asking for a response to every single thing that is posted on the forums. This is specific to major changes implemented in game, such as the PvP Season Rewards discussed in this post. Especially when the changes are viewed so negatively by the community.

    I've been around a while, and it seems that recently, there is an overwhelming amount of negativity on these forums regarding the events, or the changes that have been implemented. I feel a lot of that negativity stems from the lack of communication from the blues here on the forums. I know this isn't the first time this has been said on the forums, but a little bit of transparency here would go a long way with your player base.

    You implement a change that is largely viewed as negative by the player base? Tell us why. Help us understand why you chose to implement the change.


    If that is too much to ask, there is an easier alternative you may want to consider...implement POSITIVE changes to the game. Make us want to play again.
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  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    We had a guild summit yesterday, the full notes of which can be read here. We're trying to be as transparent as possible and are working to make positive changes to the game, consulting with guilds and our focus group.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • ScoutYoScoutYo Member
    edited February 6
    @Joel I'm empathetic to the position (I imagine) you sometimes find yourself in, where you have to communicate unpopular decisions that you didn't make and then bear the brunt of the flack for them. I don't mean any of this to be critical of you personally (or the job you do). But it's stuff like this that drives people's crazy:

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    When stamina packs and then Ella's Honors were removed from the shop, people repeatedly asked for an explanation, but there was complete radio silence. It isn't unusual for items to make unintended exits from the shop (it had happened at least once before with Ella's Honors), so we weren't even sure what was going on at first. Meanwhile, there were often multiple blue comments on uncontroversial topics day to day. I'm guessing you often don't have control over which things you can or can't communicate to us. I'm not saying it's your fault. But that kind of thing is pretty frustrating, from our perspective. And that was just one example out of quite a few.

    And I agree with @Rolla8 , nobody is buying the "smoothing" explanation for these reward reductions. It's intellectually insulting. It's equally intellectually insulting to say things like "we increased X, so we had to decrease Y." You didn't "have to" decrease Y. There's no rule that says you can't improve a reward without reducing something else. You chose to make all these changes. Telling us WHY these things are happening would help. I asked again in yesterday's summit, but the answer didn't shine any new light on anything.

    If you can't tell us why, maybe at least don't try to sugar coat the changes, or give explanations that clearly don't communicate the actual intent. That just riles people up further, when the changes themselves already have them riled.

    Edit: I'm adding a sympathy smiley to the end, here, because tone is difficult to communicate in text, and I really want to make it clear that I'm not saying any if this with animosity. So here he is. I call him Bob. Bob the Sympathy Smiley: :)

    Edit 2: I changed his name to Bob.
  • Joel wrote: »
    We had a guild summit yesterday, the full notes of which can be read here. We're trying to be as transparent as possible and are working to make positive changes to the game, consulting with guilds and our focus group.

    His comments about PvP dance around the issue. He says he wanted Gems to be a daily reward, but removes the fact that the only way you can reach max gems relative to the old system (non-B100) is to hit L1 before Thursday. Also, once you hit L1, all you have to do is stay about 40K and rake the gems in each day. That's it. That doesn't actually reward daily play at all; do your 3 raids on hard and you've gained over 500 points; unless you get attacked 45 times/day, you'll come out ahead.

    Between that, the daily quest changes and the Tower, it feels like you're purposefully reducing the free resources in the game. Again, I'm ok with that, as long as you don't hide the fact that that's what you're doing.

    Fact is, with the league up rewards reduced and no boost to honor/win, you have reduced the amount of weekly honor a player can obtain. You did not change the honor payout for L1 on a daily basis (and we all get raided a ton anyways). Yes, gems were added, but again (and especially for this week), you have to hit L1 prior to Thursday for that to make a difference (I've been in L1 for at least the last 6+ months).

    Added together, the focus seems to be on reducing the amount of free gems a player can earn, as well as honor. Everyone knows Gems are the top resource in the game, and a reduction in their availability translates into more players leaning towards purchasing them. I just wish you guys would be forthright with this stuff and not hide behind nebulous phrases like "smoothing payout tiers." Just say "hey, we realized things were too generous" or move the tiers up a bit (put L1 at 50,000 instead of 40,000, for example, kind of how the Tower became tougher for the same rewards).

    Joel, I realize you're the one that has to deal with us, and I'm thankful that you listen. Please don't take anything we say personally; we (I) love this game.
  • Joel wrote: »
    We had a guild summit yesterday, the full notes of which can be read here. We're trying to be as transparent as possible and are working to make positive changes to the game, consulting with guilds and our focus group.

    I read this guild summit (and most of the previous ones). The problem is that, the guild summit doesn’t actually perform any sort of transparency function. A giant chunk of the summit is people commenting/complaining/asking questions. The answers they receive are usually not that detailed or satisfying, such as the pvp reward change “explanation” that everyone is bringing up. The other part of the summit is you guys dropping some info on upcoming content, which you could easily just do with a forum post. The summit doesn’t seem to really add anything to the discussion...just gets people even more worked up over non-answers.
  • Personally I think a more direct approach would make everyone happier. As for the PvP Seasonal rewards, a better explanation for the community would have been "Boss 100 rewards were substantially reduced specifically because Elite Runes will soon be available here. As a new Superior Legendary Elite rune will cost you 2000+ gems to craft, reducing the gem payout but adding a 2000 gem value rune as a replacement is a HUGE net add to all players reaching the Boss 100. Have a nice day!"
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited February 6
    Other part that factors in to this whole communication thing:

    From the point of view of a lot of us, the game is in as poor a state as it’s ever been. The top guild in the game disbanded, the forums and summits are just dumpster fires of people complaining (used to be honest discussion, guides, etc), Line chats are just walls of people either bored out of their mind or pissed off, major bugs go unacknowledged and unfixed for months and months, you’ve stopped even doing the bare minimum of putting in a new pvp reward rune each week. People are really passionate about this game, and starting to feel like it’s on the way out.

    Instead of any kind of confidence building or reassurance, we get 1-continual changes that feel like a waste of resources, add nothing to the game, and are there only to squeeze a bit more cash out, and 2-a mix of recycled events and quickloot-spend-to-win events. People are frustrated because the communication we get and the changes we see just keep confirming our worst suspicions. People’s attitudes won’t change unless there’s a corresponding new approach to your messaging and focus.
    Post edited by Skip_Holmes on
  • I'm sure people have asked about old heroes getting reworked , what's taking so long after revamp? The new content? Ok so how big is the team, can't they not work on at least 2 things at once? Balance and content ? The tower dude was out sick, if he had left the company, we'd have a zilch chance of double tower that are yet to come ?
  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited February 6
    I'm sure people have asked about old heroes getting reworked , what's taking so long after revamp? The new content? Ok so how big is the team, can't they not work on at least 2 things at once? Balance and content ? The tower dude was out sick, if he had left the company, we'd have a zilch chance of double tower that are yet to come ?

    He was out sick like 3 weeks ago. Pretty scary that we’re still waiting.

    The concerning part to me is that, they could have just sent 500 gems, some gold, and 200 stamina to everyone and we all would have just moved on. To avoid the “cost” of doing that, they’ve now had someone working on a one time fix to a minor bug for weeks instead of developing new content that actually brings in money. Which is actually costing them more in the end, and is anyone putting any effort into determining that kind of thing as part of these decisions?

    Fix the error+spend minimal time+build goodwill vs. develop new system+spend way more time+piss everyone off. Shouldn’t that have been more obvious from the start?
  • liliphireliliphire Member
    edited February 6
    .
  • danacdanac Member
    Joel wrote: »
    I'm honestly not sure what you're looking for or how I can better satisfy you while ensuring that I'm being accurate. :disappointed:

    cute videos of cats.
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