Is the new Emily a good rival for solaris ?

Is the new Emily a good rival for solaris ? 30 votes

YES
33%
azgame12ObiWanCannoliPhroneskpung07BarleymanTravmaster1355chpowerhousehudson1520YummyMarshwatermelone 10 votes
NO
66%
JackHallow666BlothphoxterImpossiblemanT3MP0R4LUdudu2MelofSteelBouncerms22hadouryulost_jumper1ttheboneMrTheWaffleKingGingeNinjaStinkytoothlessmonMaxkmkJazthiGummyWormzAndiez35 20 votes
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Comments

  • edited May 17
    NO
    No, purely because she focuses on light (the weakest family now) and anti-demon (also not meta). Her res is single target(maybe better if it chained to another dead) and had a 3 turn cooldown or a 50% defense buff. I also think she needs to be a lot more tankier to survive enough to res allies. She needs to be alive while solaris just needs to be charged.
  • NO
    No, purely because she focuses on light (the weakest family now) and anti-demon (also not meta). Her res is single target(maybe better if it chained to another dead) and had a 3 turn cooldown or a 50% defense buff. I also think she needs to be a lot more tankier to survive enough to res allies. She needs to be alive while solaris just needs to be charged.

    Yep other demons need a buff first, I fell both of these light and dark effects made no impact, and feel that either A they will release a new dark angel/archangel and that they need to make a huge buff to the other demons for bonus damage to demons to be good... Although I feel that she will just be put into a barb team but with only drak barb, lemme explain, a full attack runes lily, make sure lily dies, revive lily with 3 energy and hast boom turn one and you already have like 3+ growth for everyone... Idk what the forth hero should be, ferno kinda ruins it because reducing damage lily takes will just make this combo harder to pull off.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • StinkyStinky Member
    NO
    If nothing else, Emily having a 5 turn cooldown on her res is much better than before. However this rework shakes out, new players get much more out of their poor man's Solaris than they did before. I wonder if the devs took inspiration from Waffle's thread in the suggestion forum. The buff removal passive that Emily gets at full ascension might be good too? I haven't tried it out yet, so I don't know how effective it is as an anti-Shroud.

    If I go for the Emily pvp quests, I'll probably take Solaris along as well; Emily will be more like a replacement for Leo (backup plan) than Solaris.
  • NO
    No, purely because she focuses on light (the weakest family now) and anti-demon (also not meta). Her res is single target(maybe better if it chained to another dead) and had a 3 turn cooldown or a 50% defense buff. I also think she needs to be a lot more tankier to survive enough to res allies. She needs to be alive while solaris just needs to be charged.

    Yep other demons need a buff first, I fell both of these light and dark effects made no impact, and feel that either A they will release a new dark angel/archangel and that they need to make a huge buff to the other demons for bonus damage to demons to be good... Although I feel that she will just be put into a barb team but with only drak barb, lemme explain, a full attack runes lily, make sure lily dies, revive lily with 3 energy and hast boom turn one and you already have like 3+ growth for everyone... Idk what the forth hero should be, ferno kinda ruins it because reducing damage lily takes will just make this combo harder to pull off.

    I was actually trying to find a third person for that team (with Ferno) and Emily does seem to fit that if she's tanky enough. The lowered damage on Lily doesn't really matter since she drops the vines and can die. Then one with nature makes Drakk insanely tanky and Ferno can do some good damage.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    Wait, where are the notes for this change? I didn't know she had a rework at all!
  • StinkyStinky Member
    NO
    Wait, where are the notes for this change? I didn't know she had a rework at all!
    I only know it from the in-game event banner.

    Emily's abilities:
    Angelic Resurrection
    5 energy
    Bring an ally back from the dead with 100% health, Haste, and 3 Energy.

    Cleansing Wave
    3 energy
    Recover [blah] health split between all allies and cleanses all debuffs on allies.

    Divine Justice
    I don't know energy since I don't have Emily FA, whoopsie!
    Melee Physical attack for [blah] base damage with splash damage, marking all enemies hit with Magnified Light (Recieves more damage from Light heroes).

    Traits:
    Angelic
    Immune to debuffs, Light immune, and starts duneons with an Aegis Shield.

    Emily is still both Magical and Armored.

    Demon's Bane
    Takes less damage from Demon enemies and deals x2 damage to Demon enemies.

    Divine Presence
    Purges 1 buff on all enemies at the start of this hero's turn.

    The event card mentions an epic upgrade, but I don't have Emily's epic. Also, she gets more health and skill, apparently.
  • edited May 17
    Wait, where are the notes for this change? I didn't know she had a rework at all!
    As mentioned before, the changes are listed in-game. That means it’s time to go back to the wiki.
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  • NO
    No, purely because she focuses on light (the weakest family now) and anti-demon (also not meta). Her res is single target(maybe better if it chained to another dead) and had a 3 turn cooldown or a 50% defense buff. I also think she needs to be a lot more tankier to survive enough to res allies. She needs to be alive while solaris just needs to be charged.

    Yep other demons need a buff first, I fell both of these light and dark effects made no impact, and feel that either A they will release a new dark angel/archangel and that they need to make a huge buff to the other demons for bonus damage to demons to be good... Although I feel that she will just be put into a barb team but with only drak barb, lemme explain, a full attack runes lily, make sure lily dies, revive lily with 3 energy and hast boom turn one and you already have like 3+ growth for everyone... Idk what the forth hero should be, ferno kinda ruins it because reducing damage lily takes will just make this combo harder to pull off.

    I was actually trying to find a third person for that team (with Ferno) and Emily does seem to fit that if she's tanky enough. The lowered damage on Lily doesn't really matter since she drops the vines and can die. Then one with nature makes Drakk insanely tanky and Ferno can do some good damage.

    The reason you want lily to die is so you can do something on the lines of this: (Group order:lily,Drakk,Emily,Unknown (I have tried zomm but he usually just ruins everything, and i don't want to stoop to the lows of a solaris user, this... maybe a shikate!)

    Anyway this is how the battle would go- Lily casts her signature, then drakk casts his rampage, lily does somehow being the least durable of the 4, emily resses her, shikate then casts silence on an enemy to prevent the death of lily so she doesnt lose her haste buff, then finally you use one with nature, then pollen blast and then turn ends, with everyone at 3 stacks, shikate at 5 stacks, then if no one has died yet have lily then do her signature putting everyone at 4 stacks and shikate at 6, and finally finish them off with drakk slicing and dicing... but most of this is not very viable, i mean the barbs will silence before they can even do anything, to many teams using purge trying to counter barbs... so nvm these buffs did nothing except just drill solaris teams further in.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    So, while we can all agree she's no replacement for Solaris, we can all at least appreciate the buff to her, can we not? It's a HUGE buff. Surprised it went un-announced on the forums given that they announced Therand, Selwyn, and Nimrel's reworks here.

    Malice's rework? Not as good... Feels more like they changed things rather than buffed things. But it's still something!

    I feel like, at least with Malice, this is going to be another case of the "Pontifex update" problem. That is, they "rework" a hero, but not nearly enough, so they're not strong enough yet. But now they can't just go back and change them right away, because it would seem weird, and there's still other heroes who need changing more. Probably going to have to wait another couple of months to ever see Demons being viable.

    Speaking of, another problem raised by this update is that even with Emily's massive buff, she's still not as good a reviver as Solaris. I'm not saying they should be total equals... After all, Solaris is Legendary, and Emily is still a unit you can easily get 6* as a F2P. But because of Solaris, it's virtually impossible to make another good reviver hero without making them broken as heck. And, even worse, what if you put Solaris and Emily on the same team? Revives for DAYS!

    What they could do is add a 'Reviver' tag to Solaris and Emily, and set a ground rule that you can only have one Reviver hero on your team (at least in PvP) at a time. Then change other heroes to be Revivers. Yasmin's first ability could revive the target ally, or NubNub could revive all Goblins at once...

    At this point though, it seems like we're moving towards a meta where it's going to be crucial to have a Reviver on your team, and Solaris is going to be the best choice for a while, if not forever. I still think Solaris needs a nerf. This Emily update, if anything, just paints a better picture of how ridiculous Solaris is. Even changing a 20 turn revive to a 5 turn revive, granting Haste and energy, still isn't enough.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    Also, @Joel, is it intentional for Emily's Cleansing Wave to cleanse after the healing? I think all other heroes who have a cleanse-and-heal ability do the Cleanse beforehand, which is really nice, since it removes Wound or Disease, which hinders healing.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited May 18
    NO
    Instead of giving all healers revives, maybe it's time to remove the barrier between reviving and healing. It would save the need for a bunch of reworks. Heals that hit a dead ally could bring them back to life but unlike "true" revives, the resurrected hero would only have the amount of health from the heal (not 100% HP like a Solaris/Emily revive, or 50% HP from Leo's passive revive). Or maybe brought back with less HP than the heal would give, to reflect that it's rude to let heroes die.

    The revived hero would have to wait until next turn to take an action - which is something that should apply to Solaris' revive, too, instead of her resurrected allies throwing a huge party and vomiting abilities all over the place immediately. Ponti and Chromus have to wait so it's not impossible to code.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 18
    NO
    Stinky wrote: »
    Instead of giving all healers revives, maybe it's time to remove the barrier between reviving and healing. It would save the need for a bunch of reworks. Heals that hit a dead ally could bring them back to life but unlike "true" revives, the resurrected hero would only have the amount of health from the heal (not 100% HP like a Solaris/Emily revive, or 50% HP from Leo's passive revive). Or maybe brought back with less HP than the heal would give, to reflect that it's rude to let heroes die.

    The revived hero would have to wait until next turn to take an action - which is something that should apply to Solaris' revive, too, instead of her resurrected allies throwing a huge party and vomiting abilities all over the place immediately. Ponti and Chromus have to wait so it's not impossible to code.

    I like where you're going, but not only would that likely cause a tsunami of bugs (especially given their reputation with them), but imagine heroes like NubNub endlessly reviving his Goblin buddies over and over. Or heroes like Ember who passively heal all allies a small amount each turn.

    Keep revives and heals separate, I say. I do like the idea, though, if only there was a reliable way to implement it.

    I think your idea does point a rather glaring flaw out about Solaris, though. You're saying to make other Healers capable of competing with Solaris, even their smallest heals should revive allies. This emphasizes one of Solaris' major design flaws - Revival is not special with her. She just throws revives around left and right, to whoever she wants. (Do I sound like a heavily religious parent yet?)

    Solaris was broken from the start. She took a mechanic, revival, something that was previously rare and sacred, and threw it around like candy. People will complain for days if Solaris gets nerfed, but nobody's going to actually quit the game, I'd imagine. Just so long as they don't nerf her into the ground like they did with MK, I think it's safe to say that Solaris' reviving abilities could be safely hindered in some way. Some may say, 'But then we won't see nearly as many Solaris's in PvP! Less people will use her!', to which I say, GOOD.
  • StinkyStinky Member
    NO
    If we discount ideas because of potential bugginess then we shouldn't change anything about the game. I've been getting bugs from this event that, judging from the thread necromancy that's been going on, has been largely recycled. :p

    Mm, I didn't consider passives like Ember's and Yasmin's, that's true. I guess it would have to be restricted to active heals. Maybe instead of outright reviving them (albeit with a small amount of HP and a turn missed), they get a "recovering" status? A bit like Solaris' From The Ashes, only it doesn't start fully charged. Then it would feel a bit less like whack-a-mole.

    And yeah, I completely agree about Solaris. The term is usually called "power creep" but in her case it was more of a power leap.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    Stinky wrote: »
    If we discount ideas because of potential bugginess then we shouldn't change anything about the game. I've been getting bugs from this event that, judging from the thread necromancy that's been going on, has been largely recycled. :p

    Mm, I didn't consider passives like Ember's and Yasmin's, that's true. I guess it would have to be restricted to active heals. Maybe instead of outright reviving them (albeit with a small amount of HP and a turn missed), they get a "recovering" status? A bit like Solaris' From The Ashes, only it doesn't start fully charged. Then it would feel a bit less like whack-a-mole.

    And yeah, I completely agree about Solaris. The term is usually called "power creep" but in her case it was more of a power leap.

    What if we kept revives, to revive heroes instantly, but if a Hero used a heal on a downed ally, their health bar would start to refill - But they wouldn't get back up and fight or gain energy until their health bar is filled?
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    Also, I think a very simple change to nerf Solaris would be as follows:
    - When using Immolating Fire, revives 2 random allies, rather than all allies (obviously this means 'all allies' if there's 2 or less heroes dead).
    - When reviving allied Beasts when she revives herself, they are brought up to only 50% health, rather than 100%.

    These changes would hardly be noticeable, wouldn't ruin her as a hero, and yet still be enough to make her more fair. Also, as a counter-measure, her Engulfing Flames attack (when you use Fire and Flames on the enemy) should deal significantly more damage, because as it stands, there's almost no reason to ever use it over either saving her final ability, or just using Immolating Flames outright.
  • NO
    Also, I think a very simple change to nerf Solaris would be as follows:
    - When using Immolating Fire, revives 2 random allies, rather than all allies (obviously this means 'all allies' if there's 2 or less heroes dead).
    - When reviving allied Beasts when she revives herself, they are brought up to only 50% health, rather than 100%.

    These changes would hardly be noticeable, wouldn't ruin her as a hero, and yet still be enough to make her more fair. Also, as a counter-measure, her Engulfing Flames attack (when you use Fire and Flames on the enemy) should deal significantly more damage, because as it stands, there's almost no reason to ever use it over either saving her final ability, or just using Immolating Flames outright.

    I feel like the recovering, reviving, and healing changes you guys have been talking about would change the game DRASTICALLY and not necessarily for the better. I think team without healers should still be slightly viable. Maybe when people are "downed" they need ten charges and then they come back at 50% health. Any ally can use up a turn to give them one charge or a heal on them gives a charge. Healing buffs aren't applied to the bodies so Nub wont be super good and passive heals only work on a single dead ally. Also res heroes would still be good but not necessary.

    Also I don't think Solaris should have a random revive but maybe a targeted ally and a random. I think using fury should do more damage and not kill herself or do HUGE damage and kill herself. For the second one, her self-res charges would have to be increased to 5 I think, which wouldn't mess her up too much. I don't think her ressed health percent should change- she is legendary after all.
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...

    I think 20k health is good considering some attacks do upwards of 30k

    And no, Solaris passives should be required from somebody, not given out for free.
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    Also, I think a very simple change to nerf Solaris would be as follows:
    - When using Immolating Fire, revives 2 random allies, rather than all allies (obviously this means 'all allies' if there's 2 or less heroes dead).
    - When reviving allied Beasts when she revives herself, they are brought up to only 50% health, rather than 100%.

    These changes would hardly be noticeable, wouldn't ruin her as a hero, and yet still be enough to make her more fair. Also, as a counter-measure, her Engulfing Flames attack (when you use Fire and Flames on the enemy) should deal significantly more damage, because as it stands, there's almost no reason to ever use it over either saving her final ability, or just using Immolating Flames outright.

    I feel like the recovering, reviving, and healing changes you guys have been talking about would change the game DRASTICALLY and not necessarily for the better. I think team without healers should still be slightly viable. Maybe when people are "downed" they need ten charges and then they come back at 50% health. Any ally can use up a turn to give them one charge or a heal on them gives a charge. Healing buffs aren't applied to the bodies so Nub wont be super good and passive heals only work on a single dead ally. Also res heroes would still be good but not necessary.

    Also I don't think Solaris should have a random revive but maybe a targeted ally and a random. I think using fury should do more damage and not kill herself or do HUGE damage and kill herself. For the second one, her self-res charges would have to be increased to 5 I think, which wouldn't mess her up too much. I don't think her ressed health percent should change- she is legendary after all.

    Is the whole 'She's legendary' argument really a good one, though? Aria is Legendary. So is Ponti, Bramble, IGOROK, Valkin... The list goes on. None of them even close to as useful as Solaris. Solaris is like a Legendary hero stacked on a Legendary hero.
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...

    I think 20k health is good considering some attacks do upwards of 30k

    And no, Solaris passives should be required from somebody, not given out for free.

    But then Solaris will be a have to use on anyone's basis, if we want a Solaris nerf reduce the normal Heath increase to 15% per vbeast on team, increase Rez timer to 4, and turn the Solaris passives to require no one, I guess I am ok with someone that isn't a wimpy person like Solaris and don't make it a stat stick... I'm kinda sick of those.
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • YES
    Well... I actually really like the Emily buff...
  • JackHallow666JackHallow666 Member, Dungeon Boss Guru, Volunteer Moderator
    NO
    YummyMarsh wrote: »
    Well... I actually really like the Emily buff...

    Same. But the question was, does it make her a potential swap-out for Solaris? And the clear answer is no. A 5 turn revive is nice, but Solaris can revive 3 allies, if not more, in the same amount of time.
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...

    I think 20k health is good considering some attacks do upwards of 30k

    And no, Solaris passives should be required from somebody, not given out for free.

    But then Solaris will be a have to use on anyone's basis, if we want a Solaris nerf reduce the normal Heath increase to 15% per vbeast on team, increase Rez timer to 4, and turn the Solaris passives to require no one, I guess I am ok with someone that isn't a wimpy person like Solaris and don't make it a stat stick... I'm kinda sick of those.

    Solaris is only a have to to use beast teams if we're talking about her beast passives (besides the beast res which shouldn't exist). All the other legendary "family leaders" have sometime like this which they should. Igorok, if good, should be a must have for a monster team, which I think he would be if more than one monster was meta on a team at a time.
  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    edited May 18
    YES
    I'm going to go against the tide and say yes, Emily is a worthy rival.

    She can't be silenced or de-buffed in any way as Solaris can, which is part of Sol's downfall against the Barbarians. Each turn she removes a buff from each of her enemies, which will make her very useful against a variety of self-buffing opponents like the Reptiles, Beast and Barbarians.

    Combine Emily, Leo, Sol and Bauble, and you've got team with a lot of revive, cleansing and healing. Maybe Zen will make an appearance again. Maybe throw Ekko in there as the fourth.

    It's early days, this poll was out within an hour of the Emily upgrades, and I doubt anyone has though of and tried all the team/rune combinations and match-ups yet.

    For those continuing to complain about Solaris being too powerful, I hope the developers leave her just as she is. If you have trouble handling Solaris you need to improve your team and tactics, not try to get her powers reduced. Masuta Kira was no problem to top players, but useful for the Tower. Now he's ignored by everyone.

    There's always going to be some team or hero that causes problems, you just need to figure out how to beat it consistently.
  • NO
    I have been thinking more about her and still think this buff is HUGE. Solaris is a late game hero (mostly 60-70) and Emily is pretty early (around 20) so all levels of play are going to have a common revive.
  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    YES
    I have been thinking more about her and still think this buff is HUGE. Solaris is a late game hero (mostly 60-70) and Emily is pretty early (around 20) so all levels of play are going to have a common revive.

    Oh yeah, it's huge. There was a period when Emily was a PvP defender that gave attackers nightmares. I'm not sure she's back there, but cutting the 20 (insane) energy to 5 (reasonable) for a revive certainly makes her worth a look, not to mention her other upgrades. It'll certainly make her useful for tower teams.

    I'm holding off on my tower today until day 2 of the event in case there's a tower-related quest, but I'm eager to see Emily perform.
  • NO
    Barleyman wrote: »
    I have been thinking more about her and still think this buff is HUGE. Solaris is a late game hero (mostly 60-70) and Emily is pretty early (around 20) so all levels of play are going to have a common revive.

    Oh yeah, it's huge. There was a period when Emily was a PvP defender that gave attackers nightmares. I'm not sure she's back there, but cutting the 20 (insane) energy to 5 (reasonable) for a revive certainly makes her worth a look, not to mention her other upgrades. It'll certainly make her useful for tower teams.

    I'm holding off on my tower today until day 2 of the event in case there's a tower-related quest, but I'm eager to see Emily perform.

    Oh hadn't thought about that. Solaris barely gets a chance to res in the tower because she has to die and may not come back next time but Emily doesn't have that issue.
  • NO
    Barleyman wrote: »
    I have been thinking more about her and still think this buff is HUGE. Solaris is a late game hero (mostly 60-70) and Emily is pretty early (around 20) so all levels of play are going to have a common revive.

    Oh yeah, it's huge. There was a period when Emily was a PvP defender that gave attackers nightmares. I'm not sure she's back there, but cutting the 20 (insane) energy to 5 (reasonable) for a revive certainly makes her worth a look, not to mention her other upgrades. It'll certainly make her useful for tower teams.

    I'm holding off on my tower today until day 2 of the event in case there's a tower-related quest, but I'm eager to see Emily perform.

    Oh hadn't thought about that. Solaris barely gets a chance to res in the tower because she has to die and may not come back next time but Emily doesn't have that issue.

    And she gives Haste!
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...

    I think 20k health is good considering some attacks do upwards of 30k

    And no, Solaris passives should be required from somebody, not given out for free.

    But then Solaris will be a have to use on anyone's basis, if we want a Solaris nerf reduce the normal Heath increase to 15% per vbeast on team, increase Rez timer to 4, and turn the Solaris passives to require no one, I guess I am ok with someone that isn't a wimpy person like Solaris and don't make it a stat stick... I'm kinda sick of those.

    Solaris is only a have to to use beast teams if we're talking about her beast passives (besides the beast res which shouldn't exist). All the other legendary "family leaders" have sometime like this which they should. Igorok, if good, should be a must have for a monster team, which I think he would be if more than one monster was meta on a team at a time.

    I know, but first of all Solaris is as weak as they come, I don't want to run her, her stats are abismel compared to my other heroes I would rather run, but see I am not against the whole beasts having a leader (your idea about pignus being it is not bad, maybe take away the taunt and sucker punch and turn them into commands, give him Solaris health buff, make him the hero I wished he was, also not all teams need a leader, I mean. Casters, pontifex isn't in a really good spot, neither is the rogue leader aria. (Also missing the fact that beasts are reckless and wild and go crazy whenever they want, don't need any leader mainly because they won't listen.)
    All hail the Jabberwonky-JarJar,Jabber,Jibber
    May the side of fun and nonsense reign supreme!!
    Fun Is the most important aspect of games, don't underestimate future meta heroes...
  • NO
    Just make the Solaris passives non Solaris requiring, she doesn't require that much support, also I think it's op that heroes can have 20k health without being fully devoted to health...

    I think 20k health is good considering some attacks do upwards of 30k

    And no, Solaris passives should be required from somebody, not given out for free.

    But then Solaris will be a have to use on anyone's basis, if we want a Solaris nerf reduce the normal Heath increase to 15% per vbeast on team, increase Rez timer to 4, and turn the Solaris passives to require no one, I guess I am ok with someone that isn't a wimpy person like Solaris and don't make it a stat stick... I'm kinda sick of those.

    Solaris is only a have to to use beast teams if we're talking about her beast passives (besides the beast res which shouldn't exist). All the other legendary "family leaders" have sometime like this which they should. Igorok, if good, should be a must have for a monster team, which I think he would be if more than one monster was meta on a team at a time.

    I know, but first of all Solaris is as weak as they come, I don't want to run her, her stats are abismel compared to my other heroes I would rather run, but see I am not against the whole beasts having a leader (your idea about pignus being it is not bad, maybe take away the taunt and sucker punch and turn them into commands, give him Solaris health buff, make him the hero I wished he was, also not all teams need a leader, I mean. Casters, pontifex isn't in a really good spot, neither is the rogue leader aria. (Also missing the fact that beasts are reckless and wild and go crazy whenever they want, don't need any leader mainly because they won't listen.)

    Pignius damage on sucker punch sucks compared to many abilities. I think it's a good idea for leaders to be tanks or warriors as they would be in the front lines. Legendaries are generally supposed to fill one role really well or lead a family/race. Solaris happens to do both now (healer/beast leader). Also the casters aren't really a family or anything, Ponti seems better as a necromancer assisting Zomm with the undead. Rogues have been in a bad spot but Aria is more of a light leader.
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