Looking for assistance with some teams that are causing me trouble

PugsOfWarPugsOfWar Member
edited July 22 in General Discussion
I keep running into trouble with certain teams in either PvP or the tower. Can anyone provide an assist?

Assassins
-4 Assassins
-3 Assassins + Someone else like Emily

Barbarians
-3 Barbarians + Furnace
-3 Barbarians + Agnon

Tank Rune
-On Balog or Drakk on Barb team
-On ShadowBlade
-On Selwyn

As always, thank you for all the help :)

Comments

  • BarleymanBarleyman Member
    edited July 22
    Ferno is effective against the Assassins, because he reduces their first round of damage. Shade can link one of them, and if you can pop an energy rune on him he can do it in round one. Hopper will munch any bodies, negating Emily's resurrect. When faced with Emily in a team I usually deal with her last, as she's not a threat by herself. I usually go Emily/Ferno/Agnon/Selwyn+ tank rune) against the full barbs, but I want Hopper in there if they have Emily. Selwyn (or Goretusk) is there to draw Agnon's attention, and possibly freeze a few foes. If you have any burning/poison/disease/electric skin etc runes, slap them on your taunter for added giggles.

    Barbs + Furnace. I usually use Emily, Ferno Agnon, and Selwyn with tank rune. If Furnace is not the first normal speed hero put Agnon first, even with Ferno's damage reduction he can do serious damage to a barbarian. Emily and Ferno keep their rage from building too high (you hope), and Emily will clear Furnace's taunt in a turn or two. You could try Koros in place of Selwyn, and if he gets killed first round Emily can revive him. Sometimes a kill and revive is better for you than staying alive, because of the extra turn and energy. Any hero who does multiple single hits is effective against Furnace, so if you have Grog-Gnog or similar they might be a good option.

    3 Barbs + Agnon. Use Emily, Ferno, Agnon + either someone of your own with a tank rune (I use Selwyn, but Shadowblade makes a good option), or Goretusk who can just get killed and be revived. Be sure to use Goretusk's 3rd ability to keep his taunt up (i.e. momentum low), or their Agnon will target Emily and kill her. You can still win w/o Emily, but it's not ideal.

    Tank on Balog or Drakk. Who cares? I want to target one of the other with Ferno anyway.

    Tank on Selwyn, more annoying as Shade can't link him, that's why I use Selwyn. You can use Masuta Kira to remove either taunt or Ice Form, and the problem should be solved. A nice slam dunk with Agnon settles Selwyn's hash.

    On Shadowblade. More annoying. I'd use Shade with energy rune to link Shadowblade on Shade's first move. Spirit Link is one ability the enemy can't dodge. Then the usual Emily/Ferno/Agnon to tidy up the barbs. Emily first only if Balog will silence Ferno, and sometimes he'll get silenced again anyway. Ferno's basic attack can still add wildfire, so it's not a huge problem if he gets silenced first turn, as long as you can keep him around or revive him.


    The common theme against any barb combination is Emily to cleanse, Ferno for wildfire, and Agnon for the killer punches. The fourth hero is chosen based on the rest of the defense.
  • @Barleyman - Thank you for these suggestions. You have given me a lot to think about and try. I may come back with some follow-up questions based on what I experience.

    Of course, I am interested in hearing what others have to say as well...the more input the better :)
  • StinkyStinky Member
    For the tower, you can throw in Zomm with Emily and Agnon. Then add Goretusk or Ferno (depending on the enemy) and you're set, although you might want to use cannon fodder teams against barbs to get rid of Abi's +attack ability, just to be on the safe side.
  • Thanks @Stinky :)
  • So, I have tried pvp against three assassin teams (one with Emily) and got destroyed each time. Ferno was able to do some damage on his first shot but that was it. Shade did spirit link on round 2 but it did not last long enough to make any difference (I think mk disabled it). Nobody else landed a hit bc the assassins just dodged everything. The enemy Emily took no damage either.

    So, I think I need some more details on how to counter these teams (e.g., exactly what team to use in what order, who to attack with what, etc. Basically, a mini walkthrough of what a successful battle looks like).

    I am still having trouble with the other teams that I mentioned as well but It will be simpler to tackle one thing at a time.

    Thanks :)
  • My favorite anti assasin team is koros, Emily, agnon, Ferno. Almost identical to ones mentioned above. The primary goal is to get Koros to use purging pyre to get rid of all their buffs. Second priority is to kill or wildfire debuff on Sifu so he doesn’t get off his 2nd and 3rd abilities.

    This is actually the same team I use for barbarians+Furnace if Furnace is 1st normal and no tank runes on team.
  • Thanks @MonkeyHunter :)
  • Barleyman wrote: »
    put Agnon first, even with Ferno's damage reduction he can do serious damage

    Just so you know, Agnon is flying and isn't effected by Ferno's damage debuff. :)
  • graddersgradders Member
    @MonkeyHunter Tried this and Emily and Koros dead before I got a go. It was a 76 team against my 73, but I got destroyed
  • JazthiJazthi Member
    What helps against Assassins is: Lily (Vines cannot be dodged) Agnon, Emily and Solaris. Even if Shadowblade has the Tank rune, you just doesn't care. The vines will do the job and Agnon here and there kill them more specifically. I usually kill Emily first with agnon, when there is an Emily. If not I kill Sifu. If the enemy team kills agnon this is extremly lucky, because emily will rezz him and now you can storm and assault the enemy. If they kill Lily you can use this dodge ability and the thorns stuff. I have not lost a match with this team against assassins. For barbs go and use the team that have been suggested
  • PooombahPooombah Member
    Goretusk, koros, grog, Solaris is your best non rng bet against assassins, take out sifu first, and if your Solaris is loaded with skill the assassins will die of burns by end of first round, keep GT buff below 3
  • @Pooombah how beefy is your Koros? My Koros tends to go down during the initial Assassin salvo so I cant get Solaris burn to take round 1.

    Btw I tried to test your team on assassins, and after 1M+ gold in refreshes, still no assassin teams. Oh well.
  • PooombahPooombah Member
    edited July 23
    @Pooombah how beefy is your Koros? My Koros tends to go down during the initial Assassin salvo so I cant get Solaris burn to take round 1.

    Btw I tried to test your team on assassins, and after 1M+ gold in refreshes, still no assassin teams. Oh well.
    Mine has 5297 defense, usually I keep GT stacks low so all attacks are directed to him and he keeps his taunt, hope that sifu uses feet on gore or grog, and my Solaris has 6200 skill, burns usually do 3-5k damage on the more squishy assassins like shadowblade and black diamond
    I save gore freeze for second round sifu if needed
  • hatredhatred Member
    Beasts own assasins, they don’t have enough damage to kill GT over and over again and are not tanky enough to survive Grog if he actually connects.

    The answers above are good for the other teams.
  • Thanks to the ideas presented above, I have been doing better against some of these PvP teams. I am still not where I would like to be but progress is progress :)

    However, the release of the second tank rune has caused problems here.

    For example my approach to barbs+Furnace (GT, Koros, Ferno, and Agnon) fails miserably when Furnace is equipped with a tank rune. I tried using Shade+Koros but Shade's spirit link cannot target Furnace. I tried using MK+Koros but MK is not purging the initial rune-driven Furnace taunt (Can someone tell me why MK is not purging that taunt. Is he purging something else instead?).

    So, what have people found to be a successful counter to the tank-runed Furnace when he joins the barbs?
  • StinkyStinky Member
    PugsOfWar wrote: »
    I tried using MK+Koros but MK is not purging the initial rune-driven Furnace taunt (Can someone tell me why MK is not purging that taunt. Is he purging something else instead?).

    So, what have people found to be a successful counter to the tank-runed Furnace when he joins the barbs?
    I can't remember whether Abi's +attack buff can be purged or not. If it can be, maybe that's running interference?

    With Furnace barbs, Balog's vulnerable to debuffs, you just need to get to him - so instead of GT, you could try Selwyn or the new shiny Valkin. Valkin has such a low cooldown on his freeze (a mere 3 energy!) that Dagrund or Ekko can ensure he can recast it on round two, while Agnon and Ferno go to work.
  • Ududu2Ududu2 Member
    With the new Dwarf update I don't think the poor assassins will stand a chance now
  • Sure as heck Aria wont... even more than she was.
  • no more vultron teams, one more vultron team
  • StinkyStinky Member
    edited August 4
    I don't know about that. With better stats and debuff invulnerability, Valkin should be a solid pick, even without any other dwarves around. An aoe freeze that doesn't miss is extremely good. Valkin's Lead By Example is great with heroes like Ferno, since it gives them a chance to apply debuffs like wildfire. Now that Dagrund has a passive aoe cleanse, he's also useful for those of us who don't have the festive runes to put on Emily.

    There's also the Tower to consider. Most heroes with a freeze have it on a long cooldown, anywhere from a five to nine (poor Icebloom) energy cost. Valkin's comes at the bargin price of three energy. It's going to be available every other floor. Dagrund's second and third abilities also come into play in the Tower and they've been seriously improved - Dwarven Smack Down completely purges all buffs on an enemy and EMT gives haste. Those are now serious business.
    Post edited by Stinky on
  • denabugdenabug Member
    PugsOfWar wrote: »
    Thanks to the ideas presented above, I have been doing better against some of these PvP teams. I am still not where I would like to be but progress is progress :)

    However, the release of the second tank rune has caused problems here.

    For example my approach to barbs+Furnace (GT, Koros, Ferno, and Agnon) fails miserably when Furnace is equipped with a tank rune. I tried using Shade+Koros but Shade's spirit link cannot target Furnace. I tried using MK+Koros but MK is not purging the initial rune-driven Furnace taunt (Can someone tell me why MK is not purging that taunt. Is he purging something else instead?).

    So, what have people found to be a successful counter to the tank-runed Furnace when he joins the barbs?

    I've seen this beat my tank runed furnace/barb defense. MK/BD/Emily/Sifu, but you'll need 2 festive runes on Sifu so he can use his 2nd ability (warriors chi) round 1.
  • @denabug - Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, my assassins do not have the rune power to stand up to these teams...even with two festives on Sifu.

    Any other successful counters out there? :)
  • Ududu2 wrote: »
    With the new Dwarf update I don't think the poor assassins will stand a chance now

    Agreed, I'm surprised to see Assassin defenses still around; just having Valkin on your team is enough to gut them.

    Vs Barbarians plus Furnace, what they lack is something to remove corpses. I have reasonable success with Emily, Valkin, Ferno +1. The +1 could be Dagrund (energize Valin for a second freeze), Solaris (for extra revival power + burns), or Hagrim (4x Jackhammer attacks on Furnace). If you use Hagrim you may want to swap out Ferno so you're not knackering Hargrim's first attack. If Valin targets Furnace with his first attack then all his allies will follow up with an attack.

    Hagrim also appears to have been re-designed to destroy Agnon. Up till now I've pretty much ignored Hagrim, but today he won me a PvP battle for the first time.
  • @Barleyman - I have tried what you suggested and put Valkin on a team against Barbs+Furnace (Emily, Valkin, Ferno, and Solaris) as well as a team against assassins (GT, Koros, Valkin, and Solaris - a variant of what @Pooombah suggested above). Early results have been promising with a couple of wins against each type of opponent.

    As always, thanks for the tips. I do not belong to a guild that does knowledge-share so I rely on and really appreciate all the help that fellow players offer in these forums :)
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