Minor Update: Limited Rune Auto-Salvaging/Removal When Above Inventory Limit

JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
edited March 1 in Announcements
Hey everyone,

Given feedback regarding inflating rune inventories and game memory issues that can arise from them, we are implementing a limited rune auto-salvaging procedure with a patch later today.

It's a relatively simple system, and will make sure you always keep your best runes, and doesn't salvage every rune you have above the limit, so even if you've got a ton of runes right now, you don't need to worry about sifting through all of them before this takes effect.
  • Runes will not be auto-salvaged/removed unless your rune inventory is above 220 runes (which is actually 20 above the normal limit where you stop receiving runes from dungeons).
  • Runes equipped to heroes are not counted as in your inventory.
  • Elite runes will NEVER be auto-salvaged. If you somehow have 2,000 elite runes, good for you. You might still want to salvage some of them, but we won't make you do it.
  • Superior runes will not be auto-salvaged unless you have 220 runes + 5 runes times the number of heroes that can be obtained in the game at that time. This is to ensure that you can have a full inventory and unrune all of your heroes and still not have to worry about superior runes being auto-salvaged.
  • If you have 221-231 runes in your inventory, the next time you open the game, runes will be auto-salvaged until you have 220 runes. The number of runes salvaged will take you to 220, but not below that number.
  • If you have 232+ runes in your inventory, the next time you open the game, ten runes will be auto salvaged, and then up to ten runes will be removed from your inventory, but will not provide salvaging rewards. This procedure will be run every time you open the game, meaning that if you have 400 runes in your inventory, you will be brought down to 380 the first time you log into the game, 360 the next time, etc. until you get to 220 or no longer have runes that are allowed to be salvaged.
  • When runes are auto-salvaged/removed, your lesser runes will be the first ones salvaged/removed, starting with the oldest lesser rune in your inventory. If you have no lesser runes in your inventory and are still over the limit, your improved runes will be salvaged/removed, starting with the oldest. If you have no lesser or improved runes in your inventory are are still over the limit, your greater runes will be salvaged/removed, starting with the oldest. If you have no lesser, improved, or greater runes in your inventory AND have more than 220+(5x number of obtainable heroes), superior runes will be removed/salvaged.
  • When any given tier (lesser/improved/greater/etc.) of runes is being removed/salvaged, the first to go will be that of the lowest rarity (common/uncommon/rare/heroic/legendary). When there are only runes of the same tier and rarity, the runes of the lowest level are the first to go. When there are only runes of the same tier, rarity, and level, those with the lowest stars are the first to go. When there are only runes of the same tier, rarity, level, and stars, runes without passives (4th stats) are the first to go. If all of those factors are the same, the oldest rune will be the first to go. All passives are weighted equally.
Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
www.bossfightentertainment.com
Post edited by Joel on
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Comments

  • What about lower tier runes that still have special event/PVP reward effects?
  • sirolk99sirolk99 Member
    I think most people would have preferred a way to remove the excess runes quickly and easily themselves -vs- the game automatically removing them for you. This might backfire on you guys and end up with some more pissed off players. Could be wrong, guess we'll see...
  • Maybe a way to configure the auto-salvage... then again, seeing how long this lame version of hero filtering took....
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    @MrTheWaffleKing Tier and time owned are the only factors, there are not exceptions for different rune effects.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • Age is not as important as 4th stat. I would suggest not auto-removing any rune with a 4th stat until you build a robust rune-removal algorithm.
  • JoelJoel Member, Administrator, Moderator, Boss Fight
    It turns out the system is actually even more thorough than I initially realized. I've added the following to the initial post:
    When any given tier (lesser/improved/greater/etc.) of runes is being removed/salvaged, the first to go will be that of the lowest rarity (common/uncommon/rare/heroic/legendary). When there are only runes of the same tier and rarity, the runes of the lowest level are the first to go. When there are only runes of the same tier, rarity, and level, those with the lowest stars are the first to go. When there are only runes of the same tier, rarity, level, and stars, runes without passives (4th stats) are the first to go. If all of those factors are the same, the oldest rune will be the first to go. All passives are weighted equally.
    Joel | Community Manager | Boss Fight Entertainment
    www.bossfightentertainment.com
  • bvs72bvs72 Member
    My biggest concern is that salvaging is not initiated by the player. Say player uses the free reuse unepuip and temporarily has too many runes. The game crashes during this period. Upon restart, runes that the player wants may be salvaged. Wouldn’t it be safer to initiate the process with a button.
  • MaxBeamerMaxBeamer Member
    edited March 1
    If you are going to do this please remove all “upgrade rune quests”. If I don’t have any good runes that I want to upgrade I usually use the weakest lesser runes to do those quests, especially the crown quest because it is very cheap to do it that way. With this system you will be getting rid of all of those runes.

    You know you could have just fixed your event dungeons to not give us runes when our inventories are full, but no you have to screw us over once again.
  • This is insane. Has anyone thought this through at all before you decided to implement this project? Did you talk to anyone in the community? You give us these crappy runes. We never have ANY hope of getting a decent rune from PvE. Now you want to just take them from us instead of actually fixing your code to make sure we don’t get extra runes. I had something like 3500 runes after the last guild games. Just fix your code!
  • Seriously, how is it less time and effort to figure out and implement this entire whacky salvage system than to just fix it so it works how it’s supposed to and doesn’t drop runes when your rune inventory is full?

    When I have 3,000 runes from an event dungeon and want to get rid of them all, are you guys going to flag the hundreds of login/logout cycles I use to do it and accuse me of airplane moding?
  • Phouka79Phouka79 Member
    I can only imagine the giant mess this is going to be. Everything, and I do mean everything, that DB has put out in the last year (or very close to) have been bugged. I can’t wait for the system to wipe out some good runes “by mistake” and then when we ask for them back we will be told “we can’t give out individual runes, sorry”. Gonna get my popcorn ready for this one!
  • AnûbisAnûbis Member
    @Joel this solution is moronic. At the very least could you give us a few day to at least decide to salvage our current inventory so we get the resources from them before you purge them site unseen. The reason we kept them all there was because we knew we could salvage them later... and we spend a metric sh## ton of stamina and resources for everyone rune. I don’t want to contact apple for all my money back on stamina purchases because my content earned with my mats was removed from my account.

    I hope this makes sense!

    Thanks
  • I'm trying to figure out which is worse: (A) this explanation of the auto-salvage system or (B) the 5 separate threads of how runes work when they were first introduced.

  • Skip_HolmesSkip_Holmes Member
    edited March 1
    Joel wrote: »
    It's a relatively simple system...

    The gaping chasm between a “relatively simply” solution and the unholy mess you describe...(choose your own punchline)

    A-would make goatse jealous.
    B-is nearly as large as the muppet’s painal collection.
    C-is big.
    Post edited by Skip_Holmes on
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    edited March 1
    (In addition to all the other good reasons mentioned above, Boss Fight is actually going to remove items a user purchased automatically without their approval? ....really? Where's the "undelete" button? Wonder what other unintended consequences we'll find."

    (I'm going to stay <= 200 to avoid this whole issue.)

    tldr; "Bad idea. Overly convoluted solutions to otherwise easily solved problems only causes more problems. Suggest seeking more experienced advice."
  • Ududu2Ududu2 Member
    edited March 2
    Not defending it since like some said it can clearly be better and how it was just dropped on us out of nowhere but it seems like you guys are complaining just to complain at this point, don't tell me anyone here actually uses or god forbid buys lesser runes anymore which will always be the first to go no matter what, and it's not like people who still use lessers actually have a full rune inventory

    I also highly doubt people have like thousands upon thousand of ONLY legendary maxed out superiors and elites with useful 4th stats that they would keep. Or who knows maybe you do and the fact that this new system is so confusing I'm getting everything completely wrong and mixed up, in which case I'm sorry
  • sirtainlysirtainly Member
    edited March 2
    [Please delete this reply]
  • danacdanac Member
    PugsOfWar wrote: »
    @Joel

    Once again, the player base is left scratching their head by a bizarre (putting it nicely) dev change to the game.

    I'm sure it's much better to introduce a more complicated fix to the problem.

    because these guys are master programmers.

  • danacdanac Member
    well, there go all my resist runes I've been hanging on to.

  • Ududu2 wrote: »
    Not defending it since like some said it can clearly be better and how it was just dropped on us out of nowhere but it seems like you guys are complaining just to complain at this point, don't tell me anyone here actually uses or god forbid buys lesser runes anymore which will always be the first to go no matter what, and it's not like people who still use lessers actually have a full rune inventory

    I also highly doubt people have like thousands upon thousand of ONLY legendary maxed out superiors and elites with useful 4th stats that they would keep. Or who knows maybe you do and the fact that this new system is so confusing I'm getting everything completely wrong and mixed up, in which case I'm sorry

    There are plenty of cases where people may have runes they don’t want deleted. Some people held on to a few old resist runes or the original triple attack runes purely for fun. Sometimes a lower tier rune is kept specifically for a 4th stat for niche situations. I know I’ve personally used lesser runes plenty of times when certain quests come up (chill xxx enemies - equip some old crappy chill skin runes).

    Beyond that, it’s just the mere fact that, for a very simple problem (runes drop when they aren’t supposed to drop), instead of a very simple solution (tell them not to drop), we get some whacky scheme with all kinds of potential for bugs, unintended consequences, and confusion. A scheme which is so complex that it can’t possibly be documented in game, hence requires a player to read and remember a forum post. A scheme which surly took programming time away from other things. It’s just a really bad look, even if it ends up working ok.
  • We hear you guys. Thanks for the feedback...we’re listening!

    Then we’re going to do whatever the **** we want, anyhow.
  • I'm clearly in the minority here, but I don't quite understand what the fuss is about. I'm level 72, and I scavenge all my unwanted runes daily for materials, since I'm trying to fit superior runes into all slots on my top characters. The number of runes I'm holding onto that are *not* equipped onto a character are maybe... 2? I don't have an ogre I like enough to put my ogre rune on yet, and I haven't decided who's getting the new superior festive rune yet - but everything else worth keeping I figure I'd rather have equipped than not.

    What am I missing, strategy-wise, that makes it worth keeping hundreds of unequipped runes?
  • PugsOfWarPugsOfWar Member
    edited March 5
    I'm clearly in the minority here, but I don't quite understand what the fuss is about. I'm level 72, and I scavenge all my unwanted runes daily for materials, since I'm trying to fit superior runes into all slots on my top characters. The number of runes I'm holding onto that are *not* equipped onto a character are maybe... 2? I don't have an ogre I like enough to put my ogre rune on yet, and I haven't decided who's getting the new superior festive rune yet - but everything else worth keeping I figure I'd rather have equipped than not.

    What am I missing, strategy-wise, that makes it worth keeping hundreds of unequipped runes?

    There are multiple answers but here are, I believe, the biggest reasons why the rune slot limit issue matters:
    1. It has been known for some time now that the difficulty of your PvP opponents is based on your roster power. We not know exactly how roster power is used though (e.g., is it total roster power or just the power of a subset of heroes?, which heroes?, etc.). Therefore, it is a common strategy to only rune a small numbers of heroes that you need for PvP, etc. so that your roster power is as small as possible..and you have a better chance of getting PvP victories. That means, most of your runes - including really good ones - are left unequipped and sitting in your inventory, taking up slots.
    2. Players that are competitive in events end up collecting a very large number of runes from playing. Many of these runes come from the event dungeons where a bug has made it so that runes will keep going into a players inventory even after it is full. I personally can get several thousand runes in a decent event and I am nowhere near a top player - even just in my guild. These extra runes are almost always useless for the player yet we have to take the time and salvage them. It can take a long, boring time, to do this currently.
    3. The number of rune slots has remained the same for quite some time now...even though the number of heroes has gone up quite a lot in the last year. For reason #1 above, that means players have to have a lot more runes to be able to best equip a hero when needed.
    4. In general, it is not a great idea to always salvage the runes that you do not want to equip because DB frequently has quests that ask you to salvage X number of Y type of rune. Therefore, it is best to leave some extras. Otherwise, you would have to run unnecessary dungeons to get these runes - or waste resources crafting them.

    Just to put things into perspective, I personally have a full roster (i.e., every hero) with only 13 runes [edit 13 heroes are RUNED] at the moment. If I salvage all of the runes that I do not want - less than 5 stars, less than greater - I only have about 30 open slots. That means I am constantly reaching the inventory limit if not going over.

    I hope this helps...if anyone has other explanations or feels like I have made a mistake, feel free to correct 😀
    Post edited by PugsOfWar on
  • #2 is the biggest one. They keep running money grubbing QL events but can’t be bothered to fix event dungeons to stop dropping runes when you’re at or over the cap.
  • PugsofWar - thanks so much for the detailed response! I had no idea about your Point #1 - I had been equipping my entire roster with the thought that it would help me get a little farther in the Tower of Pwnage, but it sounds like I might be sabotaging myself in PvP by doing so! Dang. But does that mean that you regularly cycle runes in/out of your best heroes? I find myself always running low on coins, and it's just too expensive to move runes around once leveled. :/
  • PugsofWar - thanks so much for the detailed response! I had no idea about your Point #1 - I had been equipping my entire roster with the thought that it would help me get a little farther in the Tower of Pwnage, but it sounds like I might be sabotaging myself in PvP by doing so! Dang. But does that mean that you regularly cycle runes in/out of your best heroes? I find myself always running low on coins, and it's just too expensive to move runes around once leveled. :/

    Glad it helped. Before I answer your question, directly, let me just say something to give you a little context that I think will be useful...

    Not too long ago, I was in the same position as you. My entire roster was equipped with runes and every time I got a new quality rune, I would immediately put it on the "best" hero and then shift runes across heroes until I got to one that was weak enough to salvage. What a pain. In the forums and the in-game chat, I had seen some of the top players talk about keeping most of the roster unruned to help with PvP. However, I had ignored that advice for a long time...until two things started to happen:
    1. My offensive PvP win rate started to seriously decline - The problem could not be fixed by changing heroes (losses occurred even when using the same teams that other players recommended for my specific opponents) or changing runes (my best runes were already on those heroes). If I could not make my team stronger, then I figured that the next best thing was to try and make the opponents weaker. So, off came the runes.
    2. I was consistently completing the tower with just a small subset of my roster. - For a long time, I needed almost my entire roster to complete the tower...if I completed it at all. I quickly learned to send a weak team (sometimes just one hero) into a tower floor first to soak up several of the enemy's first attacks (e.g., this is a really nice way to get rid of Lilly's vines) before sending in a strong team to actually defeat the enemy. And in time, I got better at knowing which hero teams to matchup against certain tower defenses. Eventually, my increase in knowledge and hero/rune strength meant that I could complete a tower with just a few teams. The heroes that were either canon fodder in the tower or simply unused no longer needed to be runed. So, off they came.

    With this in mind, let me now try to answer your question...

    For the most part, I do not find myself doing a lot of changes to how my heroes are runed. Here are the most common situations that lead me to change things up:
    1. One of my unruned heroes is needed to satisfy a specific event quest requirement - Example: If today's event quest requires me to defeat enemies with a red hero, I might rune Abigail to get it done. Once the entire event is finished, I will clean up my roster by putting all of the runes her back into my inventory.
    2. A change to the game meta makes my existing runed heroes inadequate for PvP or the Tower - Example: When Jin Lei and Craw were introduced into the game, I could no longer win enough matches with my current PvP offenses. The same thing happened when the devs removed Emily and Valkin's immunity to silence. So, I took the runes off of the heroes that I did not need anymore and put the best runes I had on the new teams that would win against the new opponents.
    3. I get a new powerful rune that is a MUCH better fit for one of my existing runed heroes - Example: When I got the Elite Plant rune in the recent event, it was a natural choice to put it on Lilly, who was already one of my runed heros. Keep in mind, that I do NOT make changes every time a get a great rune (those days are behind me). Instead, I only do it if it really looks like the change is needed (e.g., I am losing PvP too much).

    So, while I guess you could say I regularly make rune changes, I would call the vast majority of them to be small tweaks to one rune or one hero AND changes are only made in response to a specific need. Sometimes weeks can go by without a single rune change...it all depends on that status of the game. I only make the kind of large changes that you are concerned about when something BIG has happened to the game meta (e.g., the barbarians rework, the dwarves rework, and the introduction of Jin Lei and Craw; all three are examples of game changes that had a major impact on how PvP was played...so my rune usage had to adapt accordingly).

    From my own experience, I know that considering a major change to how you have been playing the game can seem overwhelming. So, let me just finish by saying that none of what I have done happened overnight and none of it was achieved alone. Everything that I have learned has come from others in the community taking time to answer my questions. Then, it was up to me to do trial and error to see what answers worked best for me.

    As always, if anyone feels that there is something I have missed or gotten wrong, please feel free to comment. I am happy to be corrected because my mistakes give me the opportunity to learn :smile:

    Please let me know if you have any more questions :)
  • Fabulous insight, thanks so much Pugs! I'll definitely keep all of this this in mind when making rune decisions here on out.
  • Everything is Awesome...
    Just another nerd in the herd!
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